Hell Bound? Says who??? - Page 8

Sept5SavedTeen · #71 05-01-2008, 12:05 AM

Awww... let's give them compassion, and not mention hell... It's truly compassionate to mention hell.

Now, I'm going to give my own personal testimony and experience here, and I'm not here to UPC bash, but to say what I saw. While I was in the UPC church, I remember that pastor (a young man) being very much against my method of telling people they're going to hell. His response was, "Find needs and meet them" and "Don't be so harsh, Alex, you got to give people time" and he even mentions my "hell-fire and brimestone style evangelism" over the pulpit now that I'm gone (or so a sister tells me).
So, a lady called the assembly needing diapers, we brought diapers to her house, and offered her a ride to service. She accepted and came consistantly for two or three months (never got baptized or filled with the HG). Her life got better, working arrangements made it so she could provide better, and she no longer needed us... she was gone. After sitting under the preaching in that UPC church she was no better than when she came in, her baby just had a clean bottom, that was it!
We had a man with 11 kids, all full grown, and they were inner-city like and what not. He'd bring a few along here and there, and they would LITERALLY fill up the assembly hall and we'd be REJOICING! And then they were gone... And then a few stuck around for their kids when there was conventions... and then they were gone...
And there was just case after case of; "Oh, look what the church has to offer!" "You're going to have your best life yet!" "Come to all our family fun nights, even if your not consistent with service attendence!" "Praise the LORD brother/sister (even though you haven't obeyed, neither have you interest in obeying the Gospel), good to have you back!" "Oh, you got a divorce, but you want to get married for a third time- well, if you fall off the horse once (or twice) keep getting back on!"
I could go on and on... I left that place. Oh sure, a lot of relationships were built, but no one wanted to step on any toes. As for church membership there, it's a revolving door policy, they go in fluxes. As for church membership in larger UPC's where they follow the same model, well... there's always some new program being offered, keeping those would be "revolving door" people always coming back for more, so they keep those people... The assembly I now attend is larger and we don't have a revolving door system, and souls are coming in, in fact we had a young lady get baptized and filled with the HG just two weeks ago. But size of the assembly doesn't matter, the assembly I was sent to preach at on Sunday had 3 people from that assembly (and four from mine) there that service (when the pastor's there there's his family also)... It's NOT about size people! That was my experience in the UPC and with their "soul-winning" methods.

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

AmazingGrace · #72 05-01-2008, 12:10 AM

I never once said do NOT mention hell... fyi... said I dont have to most of the time.. half of the time they will before I say a word

OneAccord · #73 05-01-2008, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

Glad we're on the same page...

However, to you and to OneAccord; there does come a time in witnessing, when the person needs to understand they're going to hell, and if you're asked, "Oh, no, do you think I'm going to hell?" The answer has to be an honest and loving, "Yes."
I used to be very sadistic in the past and revel in the idea of most people going to hell, I've since repented of that, my pastor also helped guide me away from that sadistic hell-loving phase I was going thru.
GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

Since you addressed this to me and someone else, I'll say this. I'm glad you're no longer "sadistic" in your approach. You're making progress. But, when I read statements like this:

Quote:

...and that includes trintarians and that includes telling them that they are going to hell. Your thoughts?

..I just don't see or hear honesty and love. Why single out trinitarians? Why not Oneness folks who believe differently than you do? Or better yet, Oneness folks who trample Luk 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: under their feet in their rush to do the very thing Jesus said not to do?

Had Aquilla and Priscilla used your approach, I don't think we would have seen Apollos working along side the Apostle Paul. Had Jesus agreed with the Pharisees that, "Yes, this woman should die!" she would have died.

Don't get me wrong- there is a time when "hell fire and brimestone" needs to be preached. But to single out an entire group of people, many of which are filled with the Holy Ghost with evidence of speaking in tongues and consign them to hell based on the fact that they may not understand the Godhead doctrine correctly? Why stop there? Anyone who baptizes in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ is hellbound because, technically, thats not in the Bible. (And we are talking about technicalities here). Or what about me? I believe sins are forgiven and the Blood of Jesus washed away my sins at repentance. Am I hell-bound? Anybody that attends ANY denominational church is hell-bound? TV? Radio?

Yes, tell an individual the truth (if you know the truth). If they are bound for hell, tell them so. But we cannot use the same standard we use on an individual to an entire class of people simply because we don't like their doctrine. But, brother, and I say this with love: Be very careful with that sword of judgement there. Because Jesus said it can come back and cut you to ribbons. And I think Jesus knew what He was talking about. And thats all I got to say about that.

Sept5SavedTeen · #74 05-01-2008, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmazingGrace

I never once said do NOT mention hell... fyi... said I dont have to most of the time.. half of the time they will before I say a word

Well then good! Can you give an example of this from personal experience to give us a picture of your witnessing techniques?

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

Ron · #75 05-01-2008, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmazingGrace

Can I get an AMEN!!!!!

Thank you!

With apologies that our theology allows that some will go to hell!

Sept5SavedTeen · #76 05-01-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Anybody that attends ANY denominational church is hell-bound?

Please don't tempt me brother, lest my sadistic side come back... I would love a good "All UPCers Go to Hell" message, back then, but thank GOD for a pastor who cautions me against those things now!

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

PS- My pastor is just getting back from teaching a Family Life Seminar at a UPC assembly in the midwest.

Jekyll · #77 05-01-2008, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneAccord

A sailor fails overboard in the Atlantic ocean. His shipmates crowd around and start yelling, "Sam, you better get out of that water!. You'll freeze. You're gonna drown!". And not one throws him a lifeline.

This is the best way that I can describe those who are so quick to condemn souls to hell.

Their words... no matter how well intended, are just empty words if they don't reach out with compassion.

Bad analogy. A better analogy would be the Emporer's new clothes. They think they are clothed in salvation but they are on their way to hell.

Who says we shouldn't tell someone they are on their way to hell? IF that is the only witness line, no it won't be successful. But you can't broadbrush that no one should be informed of their respective destinations.

Now let's hug everyone and give them a Joel Osteen clinic! He doesn't tell ANYONE about doctrine or prospective destinations.

crakjak · #78 05-01-2008, 01:25 AM

This is one weird thread. The lost are really in trouble if we are their only hope to find their way to God!!!

God has delegated his creation to this, or "endless torment" now that is heresy.

dizzyde · #79 05-01-2008, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esther

Yes.

As I recall the Bible says you will be judged by the same measure in which YOU judge.

Lord help me to judge with mercy, grace and LOVE!

I haven't even read through this entire thread, and I hate to start responding before I do that, because generally the thread has taken some unforseen turn about 5 pages in.

But it is late and I need to go to bed, so I just wanted to say, Esther, I agree 100%, and I don't understand what makes people act this way.

What you said above is something that I carry with me always, the minute that I put myself in the position of being someones judge, I have put a spotlight on my life and my spirit, and am I really that perfect under intense scrutiny? I would rather work on my ability to be patient and kind and longsuffering and loving and ... Those things alone should keep me plenty occupied.

God has been in the business of saving and judging for a long time and he is real good at it. I think I'll leave him alone on the judgement seat.

Sept5SavedTeen · #80 05-01-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

This is one weird thread. The lost are really in trouble if we are their only hope to find their way to God!!!

God has delegated his creation to this, or "endless torment" now that is heresy.

Oh yeah, I forgot about you crakjak, how are you doing? You know you were brought up at a home Bible study meeting a few months back (it was just us saints theorizing, no sinners around to take Inclusionist Theology and run with it).

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex