David Bernard Weighs In on General Board Decision - Page 8

Mrs. LPW · #71 03-01-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

How far can this go? Well, as far as reactions can take it. Far too little action and far too much reaction. Nothing has changed nor is it likely to.

The organization has gone into "protection" mode. If numbers go down, offerings go down. If offerings go down, income to the "vatican" goes down. If income to the "vatican" goes down, jobs will have to be cut......

I'm well aware of the faults of our organization AlterE...
And yes.. it is the wording I don't care for as well as the inferences made.

Enjoy your discussions.

Encryptus · #72 03-01-2008, 10:55 AM

Honestly curious AE,

I believe it was posted elsewhere that the WPF dues are $60 a month, what are they in the UPCI?

Whole Hearted · #73 03-01-2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

How far can this go? Well, as far as reactions can take it. Far too little action and far too much reaction. Nothing has changed nor is it likely to.

The organization has gone into "protection" mode. If numbers go down, offerings go down. If offerings go down, income to the "vatican" goes down. If income to the "vatican" goes down, jobs will have to be cut......

Oh no I am agreeing with MOW!!!!!

I agree they have gone into protection mode and they are afraid of losing money. It is my understanding that they have already laid off people at HQ.

Pressing-On · #74 03-01-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

If you will look carefully at the infrastructure of the newly formed WPF, you will find it is eerily similar to that of the UPC. Whose structure is a complete imitation of the AOG.

Many of the more maddening aspects of our current political spats can be traced to a single Pentecostal root. It has gone on for years, and as I said earlier, even if the regime changed tomorrow, and libs took the hill, abuse would still be common.

I don't pretend to understand it, but I do believe there is some genetic flaw in our strain of Christianity. I sometimes sense that same spirit of control in myself.

And it really bothers me.

AE,
The emboldened above was something I also had on my mind in regard to the whole issue. I'm glad that you put that thought out.

I have been mulling over the intense responsibility that a man has, no doubt, in having to wrestle with making decisions for his church and family. I'm not discounting the women that have responsibility, but it is a man's world, fortunate for me and I like it that way. I was just thinking that I don't believe I can fathom the pressure of this for all the men involved.

Whole Hearted · #75 03-01-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alter Ego

I suspect we will hear of the need for a dues increase this fall. All sorts of pitiful stories will be told about how critical infrastructure is suffering because of lack of funds.

This sort of political begging gets old when you consider there are good men and women who are expected to be accountable for their own finances, and those of the churches they pastor. They are expected to give to every single program within the org, and made to feel guilty if they do not.

And then those men and women, who are completely submitted to authority, see a complete lack of accountability, submission and compassion on the part of the organization as a whole.

This situation plays out across denominational lines, and in various organizations, daily. But Pentecostal/Charismatic orgs seem to be the worst offenders on a very consistent basis.

It is comparable to Russian politics. The regimes change, but the situation and abuses never do.

I also look for an increase dues.

I also look for much pressure about offerings.

TrueNorth · #76 03-01-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

On another note .... it has taken more than a decade to convince the org to allow Spanish ministries to be it's own division ... and the official position was that SEM had to be economically solvent until this ever happened. Interestingly, it still isn't but the org has decided that the fastest growing segment in the org now should have it's own division. I know they don't have the funding for this ... nor does SEM have a secret stash of money in their account ... since HMD kept it all ... but I find the timing of this decision to be politically expedient.

Dan
I know that facts aren't important to you - but before you open your mouth you should at least try to check them.
HMD subsidizes SEM to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars a year. If they didn't it would have went belly up.
Sounds like you have had a good swig of somebodies KoolAid.

Jehoram · #77 03-01-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueNorth

Mrs LPW isn't the only one in over their heads.
What does a Spanish editor in PPH have to do with a possible new Spanish Division.
Some questions for AE
What do the layoffs at PPH and the possibility of a Spanish Division have to do with each other?
Do you know who is requesting a Spanish Division?
Do you know where the budget would come from for a Spanish Division?
Do you know the prerequisites for the formation of a Spanish division?
Are you aware that we now have over 500 Spanish churches, some of them quite large?

PPH has bled red ink for years. It's time they finally caught up with the reality of the publishing world.
Speaking of agendas....

Do you?

And, don't we all have agendas?

TrueNorth, I think your rose colored glasses are a little too dingy.

I am not disagreeing with the need for a new Spanish division. I never have. But just three months ago this same board agreed that we were bleeding money in Spanish lit that no one wanted to purchase. Now, all of a sudden, we need a new Spanish Division?

Does the left hand even know what the right is doing up there?

Get it together man.

Jehoram · #78 03-01-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueNorth

Mrs LPW isn't the only one in over their heads.
What does a Spanish editor in PPH have to do with a possible new Spanish Division.
Some questions for AE
What do the layoffs at PPH and the possibility of a Spanish Division have to do with each other?
Do you know who is requesting a Spanish Division?
Do you know where the budget would come from for a Spanish Division?
Do you know the prerequisites for the formation of a Spanish division?
Are you aware that we now have over 500 Spanish churches, some of them quite large?

PPH has bled red ink for years. It's time they finally caught up with the reality of the publishing world.
Speaking of agendas....

I also think the segmentation of divisional priorities you so aptly portrayed is indicative of a greater organizational problem. We do not think as one.

The attitude is "as long as I get mine, I don't care."

BTW TrueNorth, all of us have different perspectives here. You may THINK you have the informational market cornered, but you really have a lot to learn.

Jehoram · #79 03-01-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueNorth

Dan
I know that facts aren't important to you - but before you open your mouth you should at least try to check them.
HMD subsidizes SEM to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars a year. If they didn't it would have went belly up.
Sounds like you have had a good swig of somebodies KoolAid.

Why not just lay it all bare TrueNorth?

And, that is old news Dude.

Jehoram · #80 03-01-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Encryptus

Honestly curious AE,

I believe it was posted elsewhere that the WPF dues are $60 a month, what are they in the UPCI?

It depends on what level you are at.

I believe it is somewhere between $85 and a bit over $100 a quarter. I'm sure someone will correct those numbers.