3.5 years or 1260 years

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I believe there is a complexity in the relationship between God and modern Israel that the anti-Zionist and the Zionist do not fully understand, and they are both taking simpler extreme positions.

The complexity is removed when you figure out how ludicrous the idea is in the first place. Modern Israel isn’t the people of the book. They aren’t the first covenantal people. Zionism is purely political and socialist. Judaism varies from ideology to ideology. Rabbinical Judaism is as connected to the Bible as Mormonism is. Simpler extreme position would be that the Modern Jew ( who holds no relation to the tribes of the Bible ) needs to be part of any legitimate eschatology. Instead of heading back to the woodshed to figure out why the square peg refuses to fit into the round hole. We take out the ecclesiastical 40lbs sledge and beat the snot out of it until it’s in place. Islamic Mystery Babylon? How? When did God hold covenant relationship with Arab nations? A group of tribes who were pagans during the first century. Who devolved further into their Caliphates which soon collapsed? Now in the 21st century they are shaking like puppies passing peach pits, as the United States allows their girlfriend Israel to knock into their bar stools.

[Evang.Benincasa]

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Ok, I was not expecting that.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by coksiw

I wonder if the so call massive conversion of Jews to Christ at the end, is rather just a revival after the Islamic Caliphate remove the Jews from the land and the disappointment by them is so great that a revival acknowledging that Jesus was the Christ breaks out for some years, and many turn to the Acts 2:38 obedience. Then, Jesus returns.

Who says there is to be a mass conversion of Jews to Christ? I know that is typical dispensational (and some historicist's) eschatology, but does the Bible say this?

Great disappointment? A LOT of religious Jews believe the existence of "Israel" as a state in the middle east is an abomination and an insult to God and provokes Divine Judgment. If the state of Israel were wiped out by some pan-Arab invasion or some BRICS alliance attack half the world's Jews would simply say "See! We told you and tried to warn you! Remember Bar Kokhba?"

But besides all that, what Bible prophecy says there will be a mass conversion of Jews to Christ? The idea of a Jewish end time mass conversion is based entirely upon the supposition that modern Jews are in fact mostly Biblical Israelites, which is patently and demonstrably false.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Ok, I was not expecting that.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Who says there is to be a mass conversion of Jews to Christ? I know that is typical dispensational (and some historicist's) eschatology, but does the Bible say this?

Great disappointment? A LOT of religious Jews believe the existence of "Israel" as a state in the middle east is an abomination and an insult to God and provokes Divine Judgment. If the state of Israel were wiped out by some pan-Arab invasion or some BRICS alliance attack half the world's Jews would simply say "See! We told you and tried to warn you! Remember Bar Kokhba?"

But besides all that, what Bible prophecy says there will be a mass conversion of Jews to Christ? The idea of a Jewish end time mass conversion is based entirely upon the supposition that modern Jews are in fact mostly Biblical Israelites, which is patently and demonstrably false.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

“But, but, all Israel will be saved…”

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by diakonos

“But, but, all Israel will be saved…”

1 Timothy 2:4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

If we look at the above verse we see that God will save everyone. That all men will come to the knowledge of truth. Yet, this verse as with Romans 11:26, there are qualifiers. 1 Timothy 4:10 “For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.” The Apostle Paul tells us this qualifier in Romans 11:23. The all Israel which will be saved, is only those who trusted in the Gospel.

[loran adkins]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

1 Timothy 2:4

Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

If we look at the above verse we see that God will save everyone. That all men will come to the knowledge of truth. Yet, this verse as with Romans 11:26, there are qualifiers. 1 Timothy 4:10 “For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.” The Apostle Paul tells us this qualifier in Romans 11:23. The all Israel which will be saved, is only those who trusted in the Gospel.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Who says there is to be a mass conversion of Jews to Christ? I know that is typical dispensational (and some historicist's) eschatology, but does the Bible say this?

Great disappointment? A LOT of religious Jews believe the existence of "Israel" as a state in the middle east is an abomination and an insult to God and provokes Divine Judgment. If the state of Israel were wiped out by some pan-Arab invasion or some BRICS alliance attack half the world's Jews would simply say "See! We told you and tried to warn you! Remember Bar Kokhba?"

But besides all that, what Bible prophecy says there will be a mass conversion of Jews to Christ? The idea of a Jewish end time mass conversion is based entirely upon the supposition that modern Jews are in fact mostly Biblical Israelites, which is patently and demonstrably false.

Romans 11. I know you have addressed that before, but for me, the plain reading of the passage tells me clearly Paul is speaking that God is not done with the Israel that it is according to the flesh, because the gift is irrevocable. Paul says that Israel has a small minority that is responding to the Gospel, while the rest has been hardened. As result, the Gentiles are coming in. When the time is come, the nation of Israel according to the flesh will have a greater reception of the Gospel. Obviously, it is a generalization, the same way Paul himself also generalizes in the passage, and not every.single.living.descendant.will.be.saved, but simply that there will be a greater revival among them, powerful enough to influence the Israel as a nation.

I know there is a debate about whether "And so" in 11:26 means "and in this way" or more temporal like "and at the end". Those that believe the replacement theology want to say "and in this way" is the right translation so that "Israel" is really the minority that responded plus the Gentiles. But the context of the passage is about the destiny of the hardened Israel which constitutes the majority, and which Paul has generalized already to "all Israel". Therefore, the best translation here is "at the end," concluding the mystery question what would happen to the Israel as a whole that has been hardened.

I believe that passage in Romans 11 is clear as water that God is not done with Israel as a nation according to the flesh.