Why I Am A Futurist

[shazeep]

i'm kind of stuck in a circle at

A&E were told, commanded not to eat of the tree of KGE; but they had no knowledge of good and evil, and so would inevitably eat of that tree sooner or later, anyway.
(a toddler is going to burn themselves, no matter how strong a caution you give them, because 'burn' has no meaning to them)

God, being omniscient, knew this; so the Fall was part of the plan?

also, reflect upon our conception of the Garden of Edenthat idyllic place, paradise, where nothing can go wrong, unless you do that one evil thing.
Fair enough; but the concept of 'satan' never seems to be carried with it! Not even in my mind; "Garden of Eden" is a metaphor for "heaven on earth" to my brain, and satan is an anomaly there?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i'm kind of stuck in a circle at

A&E were told, commanded not to eat of the tree of KGE; but they had no knowledge of good and evil, and so would inevitably eat of that tree sooner or later.

God, being omniscient, knew this; so the Fall was part of the plan?

Personally I am dead against their fall being part of the plan. That wreaks of predestination too much for my liking.

Foreknowledge is not predestination. God foreknew their fall, so had a remedy for it. But in no way did he will for their fall.

[mfblume]

Again, though, the kofK&e was not supposed to be theirs. It's self advancing self, and we cannot have that. So I cannot agree they would eventually eat it to gain that. It's not for man.

[shazeep]

ah, well, toss in satan to the mix (see edit above)

[mfblume]

Our difference is you feel knowledge of good and evil is a good thing.

[shazeep]

hmm, no, i wouldn't characterize it like that--i just saw that i was providing you good fodder to witness against, is why i carried that out a little.

but i do see it as an inevitable thing, given the circumstances, don't you? i see this reflected over and over in Scripture. I think you define it well, in that it is a "selfie" thing; what we are to overcome.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

hmm, no, i wouldn't characterize it like that--i just saw that i was providing you good fodder to witness against, is why i carried that out a little.

Ahhhh. That sounds better, then. lol

but i do see it as an inevitable thing, given the circumstances, don't you? i see this reflected over and over in Scripture. I think you define it well, in that it is a "selfie" thing; what we are to overcome.

It would not have been not be inevitable if mankind ate the fruit of life and went on toward what God is restoring for us in the end, which is all but 5% restored already. But the last 5% is a biggie! Immortality.

[shazeep]

well, "if" is a really big word, i guess. And what is the fruit of the tree of life? it is a metaphor for something we have not positively identified yet. You buying my "rebound" thing? What is "repent" to someone with no conception of good/evil?

Originally Posted by shazeep

i'm kind of stuck in a circle at

A&E were told, commanded not to eat of the tree of KGE; but they had no knowledge of good and evil, and so would inevitably eat of that tree sooner or later, anyway.
(a toddler is going to burn themselves, no matter how strong a caution you give them, because 'burn' has no meaning to them)

God, being omniscient, knew this; so the Fall was part of the plan.

also, reflect upon our conception of the Garden of Eden; that idyllic place, paradise, where nothing can go wrong, unless you do that one evil thing. Fair enough; but the concept of 'satan' never seems to be carried with it! Not even in my mind; "Garden of Eden" is a metaphor for "heaven on earth" to my brain, and satan is an anomaly there? So, we say "garden of eden" like a cliche`, and no one ever remarks on the serpent within.

bump for reply

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, "if" is a really big word, i guess. And what is the fruit of the tree of life? it is a metaphor for something we have not positively identified yet. You buying my "rebound" thing? What is "repent" to someone with no conception of good/evil?
bump for reply

Again, and I am seemingly repeating this, lol, knowledge of good and evil is independent awareness of what we should do to improve ourselves and what we should avoid. There's no need to repent if man chose life and was filled with what satan was afraid we'd be filled with. Satan was afraid of a perfect manifestation of God through us. That is what I believe the fruit speaks of. God's eternal life in us is HIS SPIRIT in us.

I did not focus on what you meant by rebound, so no.

In other words, the way I see it is that man would have never sinned to begin with had he eaten of the fruit of life. The enemy had only a small window of time to act. So he acted quickly. Should man eat of the fruit of life that opportunity to tempt him would be gone forever.

[mfblume]

i'm kind of stuck in a circle at

A&E were told, commanded not to eat of the tree of KGE; but they had no knowledge of good and evil, and so would inevitably eat of that tree sooner or later, anyway.
(a toddler is going to burn themselves, no matter how strong a caution you give them, because 'burn' has no meaning to them)

God, being omniscient, knew this; so the Fall was part of the plan.

also, reflect upon our conception of the Garden of Eden; that idyllic place, paradise, where nothing can go wrong, unless you do that one evil thing. Fair enough; but the concept of 'satan' never seems to be carried with it! Not even in my mind; "Garden of Eden" is a metaphor for "heaven on earth" to my brain, and satan is an anomaly there? So, we say "garden of eden" like a cliche`, and no one ever remarks on the serpent within.

I cannot agree due to concepts I currently hold, which may or may not be correct, that the fall was part of the plan. I see the fruit of life as putting God's life in man and putting him beyond the scope of satan's opportunity to tempt and influence.

That should answer the rest. Let me know, though.