The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Not one of them would interpret John 3:5 the way we both do, either.

My position rests on the actual grammar of the sentence. "But the body of Christ", as "is" is in italics, and is not in the Greek text.

"Which are a shadow of things to come" is a parenthetical statement attached to "new moon, holy day, Sabbaths".

Paul said let nobody judge the believers in the keeping of these things (which are a shadow of things to come) but the Body of Christ. Thus implying the Colossians were keeping these things, but were being judged in how they were doing it. The church judges them that are within it.

After the cross, those things were still shadows of things to come. Thus, they pointed to and represented things OTHER THAN the cross and Christ's earthly ministry, death, and resurrection. Things that were still future but certain to come.

The book of Hebrews hints at this when it parallels Christ's work to the Day of Atonement, saying Christ will appear the second time apart from sin. As the high priest went into the Holy of Holies with the sin offering, Christ went into heaven with His own blood. And as the high priest returns from the Holy of Holies to complete the work, by sending away the scape goat, Christ will return to put a final end to sin, verifying the work of atonement is completed in full.

They are a shadow in that they represent some spiritual truth. Thus, their importance does not lie in strict adherence to old covenant (much less Pharisaic) halachah or rules, but in their representation of new covenant truths.

The Lord's Supper is similar, in that it is a representation of spiritual truth. We have the truth it represents, but we also observe the actual memorial as a proclamation of that truth. (Unless you believe in "spiritual communion" and don't actually partake of the Lord's Supper?)

it is argued that Christ is not the fulfillment of the Sabbath, and that the wording in Colossians Chapter 2 is not at all speaking of Him in that manner.

Colossians 2:15-17 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. (16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

They point out the fact that verse 17 speaks from the present tense, indicating that Sabbath day observance is for today and that such observance is a shadow of things that have not yet come. Whatever the Sabbath Day foreshadows, the body has not yet come. They emphasize that Paul did not say, “Which were a shadow of things that came,” but, “Which are a shadow of things to come.”

Paul was actually speaking from the perspective of when the Sabbath days were instituted, as well as the meat and drink offerings. When they were instituted under the time of Law, they were intended to be shadows of the body of Christ.

The book of Hebrews used the same terminology of “a shadow of things to come” in reference to the Law as follows.

Hebrews 10:1-4 For the law having a [shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. (3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. (4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins

This explains to us that the law’s position as a shadow of things to come included sacrifices. The animal sacrifices could never take away sins nor perfect those who came to the alter with them, so they were mere shadows of the greater sacrifice of Jesus that would take away sin.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

So, here we a plain statement saying that law acted as a shadow of things to come, precisely the same term used in Colossians 2 when speaking of sabbath days, and the writer used a word that is also not past tense! The phrase, “The law having a shadow of things to come,” doubly uses words that are not past tense, seeing as “having” is not “had”, and things “to come” is not things “that came”. Yet, even though the writer used these present and future tense terms, we clearly see that the animal sacrifices that cannot take away sins nor perfect the offerers were a shadow of Christ’s sacrifice that already occurred in the past and forever perfects those who are sanctified.

If we were to strictly maintain the tenses in the terms used in the way that sabbath-keepers have argued that we must do with Col 2:17, then we would have to say that the sacrifice that could perfect the comers has not yet come, because Hebrews 10 stated that Law is a shadow of things “to come”, not of things “that came”. Yet Hebrews 10:15 clearly shows us that Jesus Christ, who already came, is the body of sacrifice that perfects us.

Compare the two passages:

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Body of Jesus Christ is what cast these shadows back in time in the form of sacrifices and sabbath days. His Body is the antitype or fulfillment of these Old Covenant observances. Both passages refer to the Body of Christ, and both refer to things to come in the future tense. So, if Hebrews 10 referred to Law as having a shadow of things to come, using the future tense, but yet we understand that Christ has indeed come to fulfil that foreshadow, then we must apply the same manner of interpretation of passages to Colossians 2:17. This means that Sabbath days are a shadow of things to come, that in reality already came, and both texts referred to the time of the institution of the shadows, and are meant to be understood from the perspective of that day when we read they foreshadowed things to come.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by mfblume

it is argued that Christ is not the fulfillment of the Sabbath, and that the wording in Colossians Chapter 2 is not at all speaking of Him in that manner.

Colossians 2:15-17 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. (16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

They point out the fact that verse 17 speaks from the present tense, indicating that Sabbath day observance is for today and that such observance is a shadow of things that have not yet come. Whatever the Sabbath Day foreshadows, the body has not yet come. They emphasize that Paul did not say, “Which were a shadow of things that came,” but, “Which are a shadow of things to come.”

Paul was actually speaking from the perspective of when the Sabbath days were instituted, as well as the meat and drink offerings. When they were instituted under the time of Law, they were intended to be shadows of the body of Christ.

The book of Hebrews used the same terminology of “a shadow of things to come” in reference to the Law as follows.

Hebrews 10:1-4 For the law having a [shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (2) For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. (3) But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. (4) For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins

This explains to us that the law’s position as a shadow of things to come included sacrifices. The animal sacrifices could never take away sins nor perfect those who came to the alter with them, so they were mere shadows of the greater sacrifice of Jesus that would take away sin.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

So, here we a plain statement saying that law acted as a shadow of things to come, precisely the same term used in Colossians 2 when speaking of sabbath days, and the writer used a word that is also not past tense! The phrase, “The law having a shadow of things to come,” doubly uses words that are not past tense, seeing as “having” is not “had”, and things “to come” is not things “that came”. Yet, even though the writer used these present and future tense terms, we clearly see that the animal sacrifices that cannot take away sins nor perfect the offerers were a shadow of Christ’s sacrifice that already occurred in the past and forever perfects those who are sanctified.

If we were to strictly maintain the tenses in the terms used in the way that sabbath-keepers have argued that we must do with Col 2:17, then we would have to say that the sacrifice that could perfect the comers has not yet come, because Hebrews 10 stated that Law is a shadow of things “to come”, not of things “that came”. Yet Hebrews 10:15 clearly shows us that Jesus Christ, who already came, is the body of sacrifice that perfects us.

Compare the two passages:

Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Body of Jesus Christ is what cast these shadows back in time in the form of sacrifices and sabbath days. His Body is the antitype or fulfillment of these Old Covenant observances. Both passages refer to the Body of Christ, and both refer to things to come in the future tense. So, if Hebrews 10 referred to Law as having a shadow of things to come, using the future tense, but yet we understand that Christ has indeed come to fulfil that foreshadow, then we must apply the same manner of interpretation of passages to Colossians 2:17. This means that Sabbath days are a shadow of things to come, that in reality already came, and both texts referred to the time of the institution of the shadows, and are meant to be understood from the perspective of that day when we read they foreshadowed things to come.

i thought that was finished.
The sacrifices were shadow of the Christ`s sacrifice.
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Those elements were also shadows.. thats why we dont follow them now, because are fulfilled. (some in the way).
Sabatism is Rest.
We will enter in His rest ,once and for all (future) but also we live according to that form now , "(how?)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.1 3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year. 4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

You see? the firure thing of the sacrifices which the passage speaks got their fulfilment in Christ`s body

1 Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.1,............
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

Do you see how the Law and all the first Testament was :
was dedicated with blood of animals (all the Testament between God and Israel was dedicated through Maoses with Blood of animals and given by Angles.)
All that was shadows of the things to come,
by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
The BODY/FLESH of Christ is what entered forever in the Holiest place in Heaven.


19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

The body is that of Christ, and we WILL enter to His Rest ,BUT ,we are seated with Him at heaven (through Christ). We are the BODY now...and we live with that and only that HOPE:
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbatism)to the people of God.5 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.
you see? Brother we will enter to the Sabbath but we "entered" through Him too. And if one enters in His rest , he stops from his own works!!!!



18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, (that is religion of angels.The law was received through Angles.we are not folloing Religion which given through Angles but through Christ.)

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by peter83

i thought that was finished.
The sacrifices were shadow of the Christ`s sacrifice.
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Those elements were also shadows.. thats why we dont follow them now, because are fulfilled. (some in the way).
Sabatism is Rest.
We will enter in His rest ,once and for all (future) but also we live according to that form now , "(how?)

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, [and] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.1 3 But in those [sacrifices there is] a remembrance again [made] of sins every year. 4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

You see? the firure thing of the sacrifices which the passage speaks got their fulfilment in Christ`s body

1 Then verily the first [covenant] had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.1,............
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which [was] a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 [Which stood] only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed [on them] until the time of reformation.

Do you see how the Law and all the first Testament was :
was dedicated with blood of animals (all the Testament between God and Israel was dedicated through Maoses with Blood of animals and given by Angles.)
All that was shadows of the things to come,
by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
The BODY/FLESH of Christ is what entered forever in the Holiest place in Heaven.


19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

The body is that of Christ, and we WILL enter to His Rest ,BUT ,we are seated with Him at heaven (through Christ). We are the BODY now...and we live with that and only that HOPE:
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (Sabbatism)to the people of God.5 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.
you see? Brother we will enter to the Sabbath but we "entered" through Him too. And if one enters in His rest , he stops from his own works!!!!



18Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, (that is religion of angels.The law was received through Angles.we are not folloing Religion which given through Angles but through Christ.)

The rest that sabbath foreshadowed is something we are urged to enter now. Hebrews basically is focused all around this thought. Come NOW boldly to the throne We can rest from our own WORKS NOW. It's a now thing in every instance. That sabbath day itself is gone, but what it foreshadowed is the rest we should be entering now.

My post was for the purpose of addressing what Esaias said concerning Colossians 2 where he believed that the future tense of THINGS TO COME meant they are not for us NOW. I showed that Hebrews 10 used the same terms to show us that it is not future but now.

[peter83]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The rest that sabbath foreshadowed is something we are urged to enter now. Hebrews basically is focused all around this thought. Come NOW boldly to the throne We can rest from our own WORKS NOW. It's a now thing in every instance. That sabbath day itself is gone, but what it foreshadowed is the rest we should be entering now.

My post was for the purpose of addressing what Esaias said concerning Colossians 2 where he believed that the future tense of THINGS TO COME meant they are not for us NOW. I showed that Hebrews 10 used the same terms to show us that it is not future but now.

ohh! sorry i thought i wrote to Isaiah
Yes this i want tell him ,that the Rest which will come is called Sabbath (Sabbatism in the Text) and we "the body" are living like we enter already.
amen?
"For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his."
That is how we keep the Sabath now ,by ceased from our (fleshy) works.
right?
(can you pass the post to Isaiah? )

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by peter83

ohh! sorry i thought i wrote to Isaiah
Yes this i want tell him ,that the Rest which will come is called Sabbath (Sabbatism in the Text) and we "the body" are living like we enter already.
amen?
"For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his."
That is how we keep the Sabath now ,by ceased from our (fleshy) works.
right?
(can you pass the post to Isaiah? )

Amen. Esaias can see it here.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

New research soon to be posted on the "shadows of things to come" in Colossians 2. Teaser: Both I and brother Blume may be missing completely what Paul is talking about in regards to WHAT are the shadows of coming things...

I've continued my studies on this, I've come to realise we were both mistaken as to what the "shadow" is that Paul is referring to in Colossians. The dispute in Colossians isn't with Jews, but a particular Greek philosophy which was popular at that time, especially in that local area.

The grammar in Hebrews is interesting, although not exactly identical with Colossians. "Having" is a participle and according to my research into the use of such participles it essentially functions like the word "because" or "since" or "as". Further, the grammar indicates it is "the law" itself which is the shadow of good things to come. Those good things to come are referred to also in ch 9 and encompass His mediatorial priesthood (which includes both past, present, and future things), they aren't strictly referring to His death. Although, of course, His death is what opens up the door, so to speak, for the rest of His priestly functions.

I would also point out that the skia or shadows are not contrasted with "body" but with eikon ("image"). The law, being the shadow, and not the very image, of the good things to come, could not actually take away sins nor perfect the worshippers. Christ of course in particular, and the new covenant in general (ie "faith"), is/possess or "have" the very image. That is, the good things are the heavenly blessings derived from the heavenly priesthood, and Christ (and thus the new covenant) are the eikon or true representation of that heavenly mediatorship and all its blessings. The law, however, was only a shadow or "rough sketch" of those realities, and therefore cannot secure the fullness of those realities to God's people. The same thought is expressed in Romans ch 8, and elsewhere, of course.

Also, a key question is to ask "what law" is being discussed in Hebrews 9-10? Moral law? Civil law? The old testament scriptures? Or the law of sacrifice (see for example Lev 6:9, 6:14, 6:25, 7:1, 7:11, and 7:37)? The latter is indicated by the fact the entire discussion has to do with animal sacrifices vs Christ's offering of Himself.

My emphasis on the grammar of Colossians, by the way, was primarily NOT about present tense shadows, that was actually a side issue. One of those "and besides..." kind of things. My main point had to do with who was judging, who was being judged, and what for.

Interesting point you brought up, though. Thanks!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I've continued my studies on this, I've come to realise we were both mistaken as to what the "shadow" is that Paul is referring to in Colossians. The dispute in Colossians isn't with Jews, but a particular Greek philosophy which was popular at that time, especially in that local area.

The grammar in Hebrews is interesting, although not exactly identical with Colossians. "Having" is a participle and according to my research into the use of such participles it essentially functions like the word "because" or "since" or "as". Further, the grammar indicates it is "the law" itself which is the shadow of good things to come. Those good things to come are referred to also in ch 9 and encompass His mediatorial priesthood (which includes both past, present, and future things), they aren't strictly referring to His death. Although, of course, His death is what opens up the door, so to speak, for the rest of His priestly functions.

I would also point out that the skia or shadows are not contrasted with "body" but with eikon ("image"). The law, being the shadow, and not the very image, of the good things to come, could not actually take away sins nor perfect the worshippers. Christ of course in particular, and the new covenant in general (ie "faith"), is/possess or "have" the very image. That is, the good things are the heavenly blessings derived from the heavenly priesthood, and Christ (and thus the new covenant) are the eikon or true representation of that heavenly mediatorship and all its blessings. The law, however, was only a shadow or "rough sketch" of those realities, and therefore cannot secure the fullness of those realities to God's people. The same thought is expressed in Romans ch 8, and elsewhere, of course.

Also, a key question is to ask "what law" is being discussed in Hebrews 9-10? Moral law? Civil law? The old testament scriptures? Or the law of sacrifice (see for example Lev 6:9, 6:14, 6:25, 7:1, 7:11, and 7:37)? The latter is indicated by the fact the entire discussion has to do with animal sacrifices vs Christ's offering of Himself.

My emphasis on the grammar of Colossians, by the way, was primarily NOT about present tense shadows, that was actually a side issue. One of those "and besides..." kind of things. My main point had to do with who was judging, who was being judged, and what for.

Interesting point you brought up, though. Thanks!

I always pursue other understandings, but again I reiterate that the church allows for sabbath keeping, though, of course, I claim it is a weakness of faith. But by no means sinful.

[mfblume]

It would seem to me that the very image of the "things" is the same thought related in Colossians 2 by the therm Body of Christ. I know your take on it, Esaias, being that the church is the body and is able to judge whereas those outside the body cannot judge in their critical and erring way concerning what is truth.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It would seem to me that the very image of the "things" is the same thought related in Colossians 2 by the therm Body of Christ. I know your take on it, Esaias, being that the church is the body and is able to judge whereas those outside the body cannot judge in their critical and erring way concerning what is truth.

Are you saying His personal, physical body is the "image of good things to come"?

It seems to me the image spoken of in Hebrews 10 is not a single specific thing, but rather is a contrast between the shadow of the law. Thus, the entire scheme of worship and offering and priesthood etc under the law as "shadow" (vague outline) is being contrasted with the "very image" (clear representation) of the good things to come. Which would mean the very image is not just Christ's physical body, but Christ Himself - including His past, present, and continuing ministry as High Priest, and all the benefits that accrue from that ministry.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Are you saying His personal, physical body is the "image of good things to come"?

It seems to me the image spoken of in Hebrews 10 is not a single specific thing, but rather is a contrast between the shadow of the law. Thus, the entire scheme of worship and offering and priesthood etc under the law as "shadow" (vague outline) is being contrasted with the "very image" (clear representation) of the good things to come. Which would mean the very image is not just Christ's physical body, but Christ Himself - including His past, present, and continuing ministry as High Priest, and all the benefits that accrue from that ministry.

It's not arms and legs he's speaking about. Christ himself is the point. He used the word body because of the figure language of shadow. Bodies cast shadows. If the actual arms and legs were intended, then the shadow would be an actual dark shape on a wall. The metaphor is that bodies cast shadows as Christ Himself, and all that He represented, was prefigured by sabbath days.