The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

[Aquila]

Regardless of whatever day your fellowship gathers on, I would like to invite those willing to try to experience the blessings that come from God's sacred rhythm of rest. The Sabbath is a blessing, not a curse. It is a time to rest, worship, pray, relax, and refresh both soul and spirit. Sometimes the day we gather is anything but restful. The feverish rush to get the kids ready, get out of the house on time, get to the church, and perform any duties that are ours in the gathering, worship, preach, sing, deliver the sermon, etc.... it can take a lot out of a person. In fact, there have been many articles written about the tidal wave of "pastoral burnout". One article listed these statistics, and implies that these are all factors in pastoral burnout:

•13% of active pastors are divorced.
•23% have been fired or pressured to resign at least once in their careers.
•25% don't know where to turn when they have a family or personal conflict or issue.
•25% of pastors' wives see their husband's work schedule as a source of conflict.
•33% felt burned out within their first five years of ministry.
•33% say that being in ministry is an outright hazard to their family.
•40% of pastors and 47% of spouses are suffering from burnout, frantic schedules, and/or unrealistic expectations.
•45% of pastors' wives say the greatest danger to them and their family is physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual burnout.
•Though I can find no specific statistics (I'm sure they are out there), the pastorate is seeing a significant rise in the number of female pastors.
•45% of pastors say that they've experienced depression or burnout to the extent that they needed to take a leave of absence from ministry.
•50% feel unable to meet the needs of the job.
•52% of pastors say they and their spouses believe that being in pastoral ministry is hazardous to their family's well-being and health.
•56% of pastors' wives say that they have no close friends.
•57% would leave the pastorate if they had somewhere else to go or some other vocation they could do.
•70% don't have any close friends.
•75% report severe stress causing anguish, worry, bewilderment, anger, depression, fear, and alienation.
•80% of pastors say they have insufficient time with their spouse.
•80% believe that pastoral ministry affects their families negatively.
•90% feel unqualified or poorly prepared for ministry.
•90% work more than 50 hours a week.
•94% feel under pressure to have a perfect family.
•1,500 pastors leave their ministries each month due to burnout, conflict, or moral failure.

Is it possible that we need to take a step back and remember God's Sabbath? What if we re-examined God's sacred rhythm of rest? And what if we incorporated such rest into our lifestyles? What if we saw the Sabbath as a blessing and delight instead of some dreary obligation? By neglecting the Sabbath are we forgetting the rest and spiritual & emotional refreshment we need? Are we enjoying our lives? I mean, truly enjoying them? Are we so grace based, we've become so busy that we're actually working harder than even the Law would require by failing to remember the Sabbath? What if we approached the Sabbath with a spirit of grace, just to see what spiritual and emotional benefits observing the Sabbath might bring?

Observing the Sabbath is about far more than which day one chooses to gather with other Christians for church. Gathering on Sunday or any other day is fine. I'm talking about "Sabbath". Observing the Sabbath is about allowing one's self to partake in a sacred tabernacle built into time itself, that one might be refreshed in body, soul, and spirit.

[TGBTG]

Aquila,
During your Sabbath observance, do you perform recreational activities as part of your rest?

OR

Are you strictly indoors? (no cooking or cleaning etc)

I'm just curious as to how you observe your sabbath

[Raffi]

My beloved friends, I have been absent for a couple of months, but I am so glad to see the discussion continue. I just want to say, in all my years of research and study (and God knows I still have a long way further to go before I can say I know it all), I have never read a more impassioned and livelier, and more genuinely sincere debate about the Sabbath issue than what I have witnessed take place on this forum. I have listened hands-down to the very best arguments both FOR and AGAINST the Sabbath than ever I have heard before. This topic has been a subject of discussion among those who call themselves "Christians" almost immediately since the death of the last of the original Apostles of our wonderful Messiah. There has not hardly a century gone by that has not witnessed in some part the discussion around this single issue. Today, it seems that the Sabbath Divide is all the more rapidly becoming the single-most hot topic item of theology among Believers of ALL denominations in these Latter Days. No longer is it a discussion relegated to the corners of Baptist and Adventist circles. NOW as we see here, this discussion is top the list among Apostolic Pentecostals today. I believe there is evidence herein that this topic just may well represent the touchstone doctrine of the Latter Day People of God. And for me that sheds fresh revelation as well as relevancy on the Verses of The Book of Revelation which declares that those in that Day who shall be recognized as the True and Faithful People of God are those who hold fast to The Testimony of Jesus AND to The COMMANDMENTS OF GOD (Rev. 12:17; 14:12).

The conversation as a whole has been incredibly deep, and I encourage any person who has clicked on to this thread in the last few months go back and peruse ALL that has been previously stated by EVERYONE involved on both sides. It is worthy of much contemplation, study, and reflection in its own right. The past couple of days I have gone back to read what I have missed in order to catch myself up for the continuation of my side in the argument. But I am surprised to see that the argument has not progressed much further since I last was in the conversation a few months ago, except to say that Esaias, I was VERY moved by your excellent argument on page 66 of this thread. I know I cannot dismiss myself as being unbiased, but I truly and objectively believe that had I not been already a Sabbath-keeper, what you wrote would certainly have caused wheels to begin turning in my head. I felt like after all this time you took the cuffs off and poured out a very decent presentation of The New Testament's support of the Sabbath for Christians. Indeed, one of the most impassioned and eloquent defenses of Christian Sabbath-keeping I have read since Samuele Bacchiocchi. And then finally, right at the end, Aquila came in with a lovely, almost poetic anecdotal defense of the beauty of the Sabbath.

I have just come through a very trying and turbulent period of my life, and it is hardly over. And added to that are a host of new and greatly expanded obligations of my free time, but I want to do my best to continue on with this discussion as it continues to evolve. If I am slow at getting back to anyone, I am sorry in advance.

Mike Blume, I consider you a gentleman and a scholar, and I am privileged to have engaged you in these discussions. I know you have addressed me with very direct, pointed questions, many of which I have attempted to answer in our past trade-offs, and there are a couple more yet awaiting my attempt at an answer, and still yet many more questions I know you have written down awaiting yet to spring upon me as we continue. I am but a humble servant, with hardly an education in theology compared to you. But as I have attempted to answer you in the past, I will count it an honor to continue to try to answer your future queries. I know you have not agreed with my answers in the past, and some of my answers have earned your snickers and even perhaps ridicule. But as I have gone back and re-read a lot of my positions, and have compared many of my answers to other scholars (both non-Sabbatarians as well as pro-Sabbatarians), I still stand by many of my positions, even where you may think they are ludicrous. I have never given you an answer of my own invention, but promise you that even among many of my answers that seem new and outlandish to you, there are in fact other very competent scholars who agree with me. I think, however, in many of the cases, I have supplied you some answers that you had not ever heard before, and so you think I made them up. That surprises me because I had expected that you, of all people here, would have already been familiar with many of my arguments being the scholar you are. (For example you acted like you never heard my argument about the Apostles continuing to keep the Sabbath for the duration of the time of the Book of Acts, or that the Sabbath will literally be restored in the future Fullness of The Kingdom, or that Saints in the Old Testament were saved by faith not Law and by the same Savior which saves US today,or about the meaning of "Under the Law" as meaning being "under the PENALTY of The Torah", or my suggestion that Jesus' resurrection was on the Saturday previous and not on Sunday . . . all of which are OLD arguments of teachers long before me.) What I see is at odds between you and me is not a debate about the continuity and/or perpetuity of the Sabbath specifically, but a contest over the continuity and perpetuity of The Torah Law Itself as a whole. And that being at the root of a greater contest still between whose THEOLOGY is right. Your theology, which increasingly seems to emphasize a strongly allegorical and spiritual interpretation of hermeneutics, verses my literal and historical/grammatical method at the root of my Theonomic Remnant-of-Israel Theology . . . and really THAT is where the matter of the debate rests. You may deny that if you like, but in going back over all of the discussions over the past year as I have been doing constantly, I see that sticking out more and more. But concerning that rift, I know of no way around that. We can debate Torah-continuity round-and-round until both of us are blue in the face, but as long as we disagree on the fundamental reality of hermeneutical interpretation of the nature of Redemptive History past and future, we will never arrive at a reconciliation of our differences over the Sabbath question.

Be that as it may, I have enjoyed very much our times of discussion. And I have continued to do so at the thought not of rallying a bunch of supporters to my cause against you, but in the hope that in continuing the discussion other Apostolic Believers who have not yet had the opportunity to examine the central questions of this debate can have now that opportunity, and make up their own minds. So, I do hope to continue to have intellectually-based discussions with you as we go on.

I have re-read over the most recent parts of the thread since I was last on, and what has been posted since then. I still have a couple of points to address your last questions to me, and I have prepared some notes on that which I intend to get to tonight I hope. But also, in fairness to that . . . as that I don't want to seem like I am only in defense-mode or being forced against the ropes, I also have questions I want to ask you. Some questions out of my mere curiosity concerning some of your theological and hermeneutical approaches to Scripture, and others more directly to the point of the topic at hand. And I sincerely hope that I do not say things to come off offensively to you. But I believe that bringing some of your more deeply invested theological pre-assumptions more to the surface may help me answer some of your questions in a better way. But again, I am not a scholar, so don't expect me to be able to offer some high-minded theological dissertation. I just will do my best.

Now, for anyone else who may be interested, I recently listened to a very good debate on the subject of Christian Sabbath-keeping on YouTube. For any one who wants to, and I encourage everyone to do so, you can find it listed as Jim Staley - SABBATH DEBATE with Chris Rosebrough. It is moderated by Joseph Farah. The debate itself is kind of old, at least since 2014 or earlier, and I have known about it for some time. But I never actually got around to listening to the debate until very recently. In listening to that debate, I realized that Chris Rosebrough is arguing exactly the same points of argument that Mike Blume argues, and Jim Staley (who is not Apostolic, but is Pentecostal and used to be involved off-and-on with the Hebrew Roots Movement, before he got into legal trouble) argues many of the very same points that I have raised on this forum. It would prove to be a very interesting listen for whoever would like some more context between what Mike Blume offers and what myself and Esaias offers concerning this argument.

Peace

[Raffi]

My dear brother Mike,
We disagree vehemently over the subject of the continuity and perpetuity of The Torah, and including The Torah's pronouncement of the Sabbath. You and I have gone in circles over tiny semantical details that most people would consider entirely trivial to the argument, but that you and I both know are ultimately at the very deepest root of the entire controversy. There are questions you have asked me, to which I tried to give my honest answers. And most of the time you disagree with my answers, no matter what I say in response.

Like you, I have gone back many times and reviewed our back-and-forth over these tiny details, all the while giving others the impression that we have gone off on a rabbit trail, or off on a tangent wholly unrelated to the topic of the Sabbath. And I am quite sure that in doing so you and I have accomplished the task of boring every other reader here to tears.

Truly, the heart of the subject is whether God's Law as It was revealed to the Patriarchs, and especially as It was revealed in written form to Moses, still has the weight of validity for Believers THIS SIDE of the cross. Or has the cross CANCELLED the Mosaic Covenant entirely and replaced it with a wholly NEW one where that old Law of Moses has been ENDED. If that Law has been ended, and replaced by a "new" law, there may be an argument for the dissolution of the Sabbath unless we can have at least one clear re-iterated command for it in The NEW Testament. However, if The Law has NOT been ended, we have a very solid basis for an argument that has a continued Sabbath UNLESS we can have at least one clear command to it's ending in The New Testament. I think you would agree with that surmise.

But in trying to get at the core of whether or not the Torah Law remains binding upon Believers AFTER the cross, you and I have really been tackling semantics of the text.

In my last go-around with you, we were trying to resolve the issue for WHY God had come to a place where He said that He had "no pleasure in THEM" referring I believe it was to the sacrifices of the Levitical System. You said to me that I kept failing to address your specific point as to why God had no pleasure in the sacrifices of His People. I felt like I HAD addressed it, and you just did not agree with my answer. I am sure you STILL feel that way . . . that I didn't give you an answer that satisfied you. I went back and re-read (AGAIN) the pertinent pages where I gave my answers and your responses to that around pages 54-55. And actually, in reading them, I was proud of my answers and feel like they were quite satisfying. I looked up other scholars on the issue, and again, I could find MANY who agreed with my particular interpretation both among Covenant theologians AND Dispensationalists. I encourage anyone else on this forum to go back and re-read the exchange and see if I did NOT give a satisfactory answer to every point you raised. You accused me of reading my OWN interpolation into the text, but if I am guilty of doing that, so are a lot of other theologians before me.

But to re-address a point you raised in your objection to my answer before I would like to move on to a new topic, I agree with you that if the matter was indeed according only to my answer, then the remedy WOULD be that the people offered the sacrifices with an honest and faithful heart. So I agree with you. And WHEN the People DID that, God ACCEPTED their sacrifices. Read The Bible and see that for yourself. But the problem I think that you missed was that the People were not CONSISTENT with this attitude. Each time the People would be revived (and God was pleased with their offerings and accepted them on the matter of their faith), but within one or two generations the people again would fall into unbelief and sin. You do not deny that cyclical pattern. But the weakness was not bound in some structural failure of the sacrificial system (that was designed by a perfect, all-knowing God). Rather, the weakness was the People's inability to maintain consistency (the same as people today). Therefore, God, seeing the inability of the Sacrificial System to make the People perfect within and without, resolved the problem by filling His People with Himself in the Holy Ghost, which is the consequence of The Atonement. The sacrifices could NOT make the People consistently obedient. The Holy Ghost CAN. But I would like to point out that even Jesus' Atoning Sacrifice, if NOT received with a pure heart of faith, is INADEQUATE to save. If It is not accepted by faith, even It cannot cause a person to be PERFECT. That is what I believe Hebrews 8-10 is talking about and trying to teach us.

You did not agree with my answer there, and I doubt you will agree with my answer now. But there you have it. We can continue to quibble about our differences of view here, but I DO believe that the answer I supply is an adequate answer, even if you want to continue to insist that you do not buy it. I would rather agree to disagree here and move on to a new question, and leave it up to others to compare our two opposing answers and determine for themselves which answer best satisfies the context.

In closing the matter there, though, I failed to mention an important Scripture Passage that I believe continues to build my case along with the other Passages I quoted before, and should like to mention It here and encourage others to read it as well. (Psalm 95:7-11) I think it is appropriate to consider this Passage because It, like Hebrews, has something to say about comparing the "hardening of our hearts" against "entering His REST". So I think it is appropriate and relevant to the Passage noted in Hebrews. And I believe that the writer had this Passage in mind along with the other Verses I noted before when he penned Hebrews 8-10. See for yourself if the Passage agrees with what I say Hebrews is getting at.

Peace.

[Raffi]

Now, Brother Mike,
I should like to ask you a couple of quick questions:

According to your beliefs (your theology), would you say that you believe that the Sabbath as it is recorded in Genesis, was originally created by God as a LITERAL ordinance or was it created as merely a "spiritual principle"?
Ans also:
To the best of your knowledge, is there any reason to believe that the word "SABBATH" means something fundamentally different in The NEW Testament than what the word meant to Moses, or as understood by Moses?

Thank you.

Peace.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I'm sorry if your favorite commentaries refuse to follow the simple grammar of the text, just like they do with John 1:1 and many other inconvenient passages.

But if you want to read a scholar of a different opinion, try this:

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3266938

I have no faves. Just what I came across. Well check out your reference. But it's still not like people vary in John 3,:5

[mfblume]

Hey Raffi, good to see you back. sorry to hear that you were hospitalized.

Concerning the issue of our disagreement on the purpose for Why God was not pleased with sacrifices, the point I think you missed is that the remedy was not people giving from an honest heart. I know I already said this, but it still applies. The remedy was Jesus Christ offering himself as a perfect sacrifice. It had nothing to do with the people's intentions or hearts or anything similar. It was comparing those animal sacrifices with Jesus Christ human bodily sacrifice.

At any rate I did not have any serious theological training like you imply. I'm just learning through prayer and personal study and gleaning from others what the Bible is actually trying to tell us.

[mfblume]

The only thing I was disappointed in our conversation is that you would make an assertion about a certain verse, I would challenge it, and you would not respond to my challenge. You did sometimes, but usually didn't. You did explain your point, but didn't always respond to my challenges for them, and show why my challenges were wrong. So that's not a thorough discussion about any given subject. So I don't know if I'm interested in continuing this, and I really don't care what bores the reader or not either. I just want to learn, I want to hone my own skills in explaining what I believe, and just see how they stand up with other people's responses.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Raffi

Now, Brother Mike,
I should like to ask you a couple of quick questions:

According to your beliefs (your theology), would you say that you believe that the Sabbath as it is recorded in Genesis, was originally created by God as a LITERAL ordinance or was it created as merely a "spiritual principle"?
Ans also:
To the best of your knowledge, is there any reason to believe that the word "SABBATH" means something fundamentally different in The NEW Testament than what the word meant to Moses, or as understood by Moses?

Thank you.

Peace.

I believe that God resting on the 7th Day in Genesis had nothing to do with the rest of humanity doing the same thing at that time as though Adam kept sabbath day. . It wasn't until Moses came along with law that man was invited to get involved with that also. Before that God never demanded anybody keep it. It was strictly related to Law keeping.

Sabbath simply means rest. The day was instituted as a shadow of the real purpose God had concerning rest. It's certainly not a 24-hour day. There's nothing sinful about keeping a 24-hour day as a rest, but when we think God requires it, we're missing the point. The real Sabbath is A rest from our own works in the sense of Salvation, and salvation by works. Hebrews 4 clearly tells us that the rest we're supposed to enter into is far more than just a day or, as Hebrews also compared with, far more than just entering the land of Canaan. Entering the land of Canaan and keeping a seventh day are both Shadows of the real rest God has for us. When Hebrews told us there remained a rest long after Joshua took them into the land of Canaan, and long after Sabbath day was instituted , he wasn't telling us we're returning to a seventh day. Both of the day and the entrance into Canaan were types and shadows of the real rest. The point he was making was that if the day was the rest, why is God still telling us to enter his rest, just as much as he's asking us why we're not entering into a rest after they already entered the rest of Canaan. He's telling us that the day and the rest of the land of Canaan were only Shadows of the true rest, or else God would never said I still have a rest for you.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Aquila,
During your Sabbath observance, do you perform recreational activities as part of your rest?

OR

Are you strictly indoors? (no cooking or cleaning etc)

I'm just curious as to how you observe your sabbath

Sure, I'll share the way me and my family observes it. But first, I want to present some explanatory information so that you can see where I'm coming from as I answer your questions.

To help with understanding how I do it, it's important to note how I view the Ten Commandments in relation to the rest of the Law. I believe in drawing a distinction between the Ten Commandments (what I see as the eternal moral Law of God) and the body of laws contained in the Torah that are strictly for ancient Israel (what I define as the Law of Moses). Yes, the Law of Moses contains the Law of God, but it is the Law of God that I view as being of an eternal moral nature. As a Christian, we are not under the Law of Moses. However, God's eternal moral law (the Ten Commandments) still stands to define sin and convict sinners.

With that being said, with regards to the Sabbath, I only appeal to the 4th Commandment:

Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This commandment is rather simple. It only asks:

- The word "Sabbath" is based on the Hebrew word meaning: "to stop, rest, cease, peace".
- That we are to remember the Sabbath day, and keep it separated for rest, worship, and devotions.
- It is to be the 7th day.
- One isn't to perform "work" on the Sabbath. (The purpose is to avoid distraction from devotion. Man tends to put work and advancement ahead of worship and devotion. Jesus illustrated how it is okay to do good on the Sabbath, even if it is work. So, I avoid anything that would bring remuneration my way.)
- I encourage all within my house hold to rest from distractions that might hinder rest, worship, and devotions.
- In keeping the Sabbath we affirm God as Creator.
- In keeping the Sabbath we rest and enjoy the fruit of our labors as the LORD did in the beginning.

Now, with all that said, I can hopefully answer your questions now. lol

During your Sabbath observance, do you perform recreational activities as part of your rest?

Yes! But I try to ensure that these activities truly bring peace, rest, and a general sense of inspiration. I like fishing, nature walks, camping, swimming, cook-out, etc. I like to be outside and enjoying God's creation. We also might play board games, video games, etc. at times. Or we will set time aside for a special movie. We see rest and family life as being just as sacred as a sacrament like communion. It isn't to be neglected. Time together, enjoyment, and laughter is indeed a sacred thing to be cherished.

Now, this doesn't mean that it is all just fun in the sun. We also have family altar. It's like a time of prayer with an open forum to discuss problems, questions, and to request prayer for various things going on in our lives. Sometimes, if the Lord gives me a thought to share from the Word, I share it. Sometimes, I'll share what I'm studying in the Word or even things we've talked about on this forum! LOL

Sometimes, we've felt led to break bread and pass the cup during our family altar.

So, while recreation is welcome, we don't just focus on fun in the sun. We include devotions, prayer, and worship... as a family.

We see this as important and we keep this tradition in our home, even when we attend what some call "Sunday church". In fact, I prefer to attend a "Sunday church" because it leaves my Sabbath being an actual day of REST. lol Sometimes "church days" are the busiest and leave one exhausted. So the Sabbath, for us, is more of a family observance. And interestingly, though many families in church don't call it "Sabbath observance"... they instinctively do the same with their Friday nights and Saturdays. It's not drudgery. It's not an impossible mandate. It's actually a joy and a delight! lol

But, that's our approach.

Are you strictly indoors? (no cooking or cleaning etc)

Nope. We are not strictly indoors. Since the Sabbath hails from creation itself, we like to get outside and enjoy God's creation.

Yes! I try to get out of as much cooking and cleaning as possible, unless the cooking involves a grill! lol

We try to clean the house Thursday and early Friday evening. That way, after it gets dark on Friday night, we can party! Everybody I know looks forward to Friday nights. Because that's when the weekend begins. That's when we get the party started!

The world works for the weekend, and they party down starting Friday night. It's instinctual because that was the pattern going all the way back to the garden of Eden. Only, with us, God is the host of this party!

It's a joy, it's a delight! And we look forward to it every week, even though our church body gathers corporately on Sundays.