Trump 2016

[n david]

Originally Posted by Originalist

If foreign nationals living here are on a watch list, then they are bot entitled to
Constitutional rights and should not be allowed to own a gun. An American citizen is another thing, though.

James Madison and the 14th would disagree with this.

[aegsm76]

I believe currently, legal foreign nationals are afforded the same 2nd amendment rights as citizens.

[n david]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I believe currently, legal foreign nationals are afforded the same 2nd amendment rights as citizens.

Not only 2A rights, but all Bill of Rights. And it includes illegals.

"nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by n david

Not only 2A rights, but all Bill of Rights. And it includes illegals.

"nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Illegals are not in our jurisdiction. They are illegal entities. This is why the 14th Amendment was originally explained to mean (by its authors) that children of illegals were not citizens just because they are born on American soil. Why? Because they are not in the jurisdiction of our country.

[Esaias]

The Bill of Rights does not grant anybody anything, least of all 'rights'. The Bill of rights is prohibitive, it prohibits (supposedly) the federal government from infringing on certain rights. The people had those rights before there was a Constitution, before there was a federal government. They stem from 'natural rights given by God'.

The right to free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of worship, right to keep and bear arms, right to be secure in their persons against unwarranted searches and seizures, the right to habeus corpus, etc are rights inhering in a person's existence as a natural person. Therefore, technically speaking, all people have those rights, period, wherever they are and whoever they are, unless a competent legal jurisdiction has removed those rights by due process (ie conviction for criminality).

So then theoretically, even illegals present in the country would have a right to keep and bear arms. Now if a person is here illegally - or legally for that matter - and is intent on waging war against these united States and the people, they are enemy belligerants, and are either in the category of a foreign military, or mere pirates. And in such cases, both the government and the people have every right to seize (arrest) and if necessary kill such persons (who are caught in an act that is likely to deprive a citizen of life, limb, liberty, or any property essential to the life and well being of the people).

I haven't really seen a legal case for depriving foreigners of their inalienable rights simply because of their presence. One doesn't get natural God-given rights by becoming a US citizen. The spirit and entire point of the American Revolution, indeed the hopes of those who participated in the Revolution, were that the Revolution would be exported to all nations, that all peoples everywhere would wake up to their inherent God-given liberties, and throw off the shackles of tyrannical government.

Unfortunately, the Revolution seems to have suffered a mortal blow in 1865, and by the 1930s it was gasping it's last breath. Nowadays, most people don't even understand what 'The Revolution' means, they think it was just a tax protest against the British.

[Esaias]

Furthermore, there is a deeper question: does the Bible - does GOD - recognise the concept of an 'illegal alien'? While it is true that we currently have what is nothing less than multiple invasions of foreigners, and thus an extreme situation, the theoretical concept of 'an illegal alien' seems unbiblical. God gave a divine law to Israel, which was intended to be a model for all nations. And I cannot find anywhere in that law a prohibition of a foreigner travelling to or through the land of Israel, or working in the land, or living in the land, or even inheriting property in the land.

Foreign invasions, however, are different (see Judges 6).

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Furthermore, there is a deeper question: does the Bible - does GOD - recognise the concept of an 'illegal alien'? While it is true that we currently have what is nothing less than multiple invasions of foreigners, and thus an extreme situation, the theoretical concept of 'an illegal alien' seems unbiblical. God gave a divine law to Israel, which was intended to be a model for all nations. And I cannot find anywhere in that law a prohibition of a foreigner travelling to or through the land of Israel, or working in the land, or living in the land, or even inheriting property in the land.

Foreign invasions, however, are different (see Judges 6).

Here's is Joseph Farrah's take on the matter - http://www.wnd.com/2014/10/what-bibl...l-immigration/

According to him, illegal aliens are trespassers, and are not 'strangers' in the Biblical sense. I would disagree with that, as the word 'stranger' simply means 'other' or 'foreigner', not 'invited guest'.

He remarks that strangers were not allowed to own property unless they became circumcised. I am going to check into that, I thought I had read something different.

[n david]

James Madison speaking of aliens and the Constitution: """as they, owe, on the one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their protection and advantage."""

[n david]

Mr I'm a Billionaire's campaign has $1.3 million in the bank and is in debt 45.7 million.

Boy, can't wait for this guy to run the country. [Tic]

#Trumponomics

[n david]

20% of his expenses in May (1.1 million) went to his firms and travel reimbursements for his kids.

#Trumponomics