Tithing…Is it a command?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esphes45

You are funny. Did Jesus and the apostles get paid to preach? The last thing tithes should be for is to pay the pastor's living expenses.

That's not a good comparison

Jesus and the Apostles were traveling preachers without families to take care of.

And they DID get paid, sort of. Where ever they went they got free lodging and free food.

And apparently they got money from somewhere

Joh 12:5 "Why was this ointment not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?"
Joh 12:6 He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esphes45

This was my initial point. (If you believe in tithing) Tithes does not have to be money.

Tithes was a portion of whatever you were increased in

By all means if you grow 100 acres of grain and want to tithe 10 percent grain to the Pastor, be my guest

But most of us today are not farmers or ranchers

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by keptbytheword

i have been reading in deuteronomy. A great book to read about the many things that god wanted the israelites to understand in how to live, and love your neighbor. I came across this passage on tithing:

duet. 14:22-29
22 thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23 and thou shalt eat before the lord thy god, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the lord thy god always.
24 and if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the lord thy god shall choose to set his name there, when the lord thy god hath blessed thee:
25 then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the lord thy god shall choose:
26 and thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: And thou shalt eat there before the lord thy god, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
27 and the levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.
28 at the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
29 and the levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the lord thy god may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

i would like to point out some things in this passage for discussion:

1. The israelite in vs. 23 was instructed to "eat of the tithe" himself, and his family before the lord, rejoicing, him and his household while he ate, including the levite in their celebration.

2. The tithe was brought once every three years. Vs. 28

3. Every three years when the tithe was brought, the israelite would eat of his own tithe, sharing with the levite, the stranger, fatherless, and widow, so that the lord would bless him.

4. In verses 24-26... Please note an interesting thing. If the israelite could not travel with his abundance of his third year tithe, he could sell his tithe, take the money, and buy "whatever his soul lusteth for" ... Even wine or strong drink (!!!), eat or drink it before the lord, both he and his household, and the levite.

i would like comments on this as to how this tithing commandment could possibly be in any way similar to how tithing is taught today.

bump

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Personally I believe we screwed up big time by having a class of believers called ministry and the other class just the sheeple.

We should have been training and expecting EVERYONE to be a minister.

If someone needs to be baptized why wait for Pastor Joe to get done flipping hamburgers?

No where in the bible does it stipulate who can or can't baptize does it?

BINGO!!!, Rome did not give the Church a license to preach. The Lord did, when He filled the saints with the Holy Ghost.....

Here is our call...Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
your old men shall dream dreams,
your young men shall see visions:

[Esphes45]

You would think after all that has been said about tithing, a person that claim to be lead of God would at least consider the lack of scriptural evidence for tithing today.

The only reason tithes are preached today because 1 scripture can be used to get money out of people (in the name of the Lord I might add)

I am pretty sure if a pastor needed anything, his congregation would be more than happy (out of love) to get him whatever he needed. That is the way it should be.

[good samaritan]

I want to speak in here as a bi-vocational pastor in defense of other pastors. There is a bad trend of preachers running other preachers down. I hear all the judgments passed against brothers In the Lord. Preachers are hard on other preachers and in the end we hurt the work of God. I read on another thread someone put that he was trying to reach the saints of churches to reveal the error of their tithe teaching pastor.

After he got through to the saints that their pastor was wrong; how do you think that is going to affect the unity that saint will have where they go in future? After they have been convinced their previous pastor was a greedy lying preacher. People need to stop tearing one another down. If you choose to believe in tithing or not tithing you have that choice. If a pastor chooses to teach or not teach tithing that is his choice. God placed him their no doubt and the pastor will be responsible for his actions.

I do think the ministry should receive compensation for their labor. Many people run preachers down over money and they don't know anything about the individual and the time and energies he has invested. There is an old saying you get what you pay for. If a church congregation doesn't feel to reward the ministry employed with them then they can't say too much about his lack of time to take care of the church's needs.

We talked on another thread about an associate pastor and his hardships and by the description given I could relate to the hardships. When I mentioned my similar financial situations they remarked that my sacrifices were appropriate for a pastor. Is sacrificial giving only for pastors or is it for all born again believers. Do we inherently give sacrificially, or do we learn through teaching and by others example.

Some make it sound like they hate their pastor and don't want to see him prosper any for the labor he does. What do you think God thinks about this attitude? If the church body doesn't have unity, is against the leadership, and doesn't have a desire to reward those who labor within it then they can't count on being a successful church. Tithing or non-tithing if you despise leadership you are going to miss out with God.

Hope all here feel that their pastor deserves more because if not maybe you should find leadership you will appreciate.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I want to speak in here as a bi-vocational pastor in defense of other pastors. There is a bad trend of preachers running other preachers down. I hear all the judgments passed against brothers In the Lord. Preachers are hard on other preachers and in the end we hurt the work of God. I read on another thread someone put that he was trying to reach the saints of churches to reveal the error of their tithe teaching pastor.


Brother, I cant imagine who you could be speaking of....LOL

After he got through to the saints that their pastor was wrong; how do you think that is going to affect the unity that saint will have where they go in future? After they have been convinced their previous pastor was a greedy lying preacher.

Its a cinch, the so called "laity" just makes the "clergy" stop teaching it.


People need to stop tearing one another down. If you choose to believe in tithing or not tithing you have that choice. If a pastor chooses to teach or not teach tithing that is his choice. God placed him their no doubt and the pastor will be responsible for his actions.

Meanwhile, the "stumblingblock" just gets bigger and more folks try to get over the financial wall erected by the "clergy" to get to their savior.

I do think the ministry should receive compensation for their labor. Many people run preachers down over money and they don't know anything about the individual and the time and energies he has invested. There is an old saying you get what you pay for. If a church congregation doesn't feel to reward the ministry employed with them then they can't say too much about his lack of time to take care of the church's needs.


I do to, but they must stop the "minimum charge" for being a disciple of our Lord.

We talked on another thread about an associate pastor and his hardships and by the description given I could relate to the hardships. When I mentioned my similar financial situations they remarked that my sacrifices were appropriate for a pastor. Is sacrificial giving only for pastors or is it for all born again believers. Do we inherently give sacrificially, or do we learn through teaching and by others example.

Some make it sound like they hate their pastor and don't want to see him prosper any for the labor he does. What do you think God thinks about this attitude? If the church body doesn't have unity, is against the leadership, and doesn't have a desire to reward those who labor within it then they can't count on being a successful church. Tithing or non-tithing if you despise leadership you are going to miss out with God.


Nobody hates these men, just what they teach. They are using a wrecking ball on the saints weekly.

Hope all here feel that their pastor deserves more because if not maybe you should find leadership you will appreciate.

He will get what is coming to him.
If he teaches the truth...he will have the favor of our Lord. That is a man that will be blessed.

[Praxeas]

A lot of people want to give to support the church needs as well as support a full time Pastor.

They don't do it out of fear nor because they hear weekly sermons on tithing.

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Tithes was a portion of whatever you were increased in

By all means if you grow 100 acres of grain and want to tithe 10 percent grain to the Pastor, be my guest

But most of us today are not farmers or ranchers

Bro. tithes under the law were food items of which God commanded. It was not whatever.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Bro. tithes under the law were food items of which God commanded. It was not whatever.

I never said it wasn't food items. In fact if you really read what I posted I SAID it was food items.

I never said it was "whatever"...

I said it was whatever God INCREASED you in. Read that with my previous post about the agri-economy at the time.

I never denied it was food items.