It is amazing that when my wife gets under the heavy power of God, she does not feel compelled to dance in a choreographed manner, but goes wild, does the whirly-bird, and if you are dumb enough to stand in her way--well, you're just plain dumb. She falls out in the Spirit.
I do find where David danced before the Lord. I never saw where he took dance classes.
I see where the Hebrews were told to shout unto the Lord. I am not sure where you draw the line between shouting and screaming. Seems to me they are pretty similar.
Next, someone will be trying to choreograph crying.
Now I, for one, ENJOY choreographed worship. I like flags, and I like CLASSICAL dance in modest clothing. I saw a lady do this on a video clip at TDJ's church website. I thought it was an extremely beautiful expression, and she was modest--at least VERY modest for a charismatic. I love choreographed demonstrative sign language. I truly enjoy sticks, etc.
I am just not sure whether these really should have a place in Apostolic worship. They seem to me to be more of "Apostolic Entertainment."
I could be wrong. Once again, please show Scripture, and give personal experience.
1) Where does Scripture tell us to "dance a new dance?"
2) Where does Scripture show us that anyone was trained to dance?
3) Where does Scripture show dramatics, in any form?
4) When have you personally watched a performance of choreographed worship and felt compelled to "shout unto God with the voice of triumph," speak in other tongues, or weep?
5) When have you personally performed choreographed worship and felt compelled to speak in other tongues, or weep, or to "shout unto God with the voice of triumph"?
6) Do you have accounts of people that have come to God, been baptized in Jesus Name, and received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost because of choreographed worship?
7) Do small churches grow when they establish choreographed worship, or is that large churches get larger or at least maintain their crowds because of these activities?
You may think that I am antagonistic towards the practice. On the contrary, I have told you that I actually see a lot of beauty in this. I personally like some of this stuff. I am looking for a compelling reason for why we should change our way of doing things. If I cannot find a compelling reason, then I have a hard time making a decision to change.
I personally think that every thing the church does should be based upon sound Bible principle and theology. Produce for me a Bible theology supporting this activity in worship and if I can see that it is sound in nature, I will work tirelessly to bring this forward in our movement.
Is that a fair challenge and request?
__________________ Oh! That I may be found faithful!
For me the big deal is not that it is in rhythym or to the beat but that it is choreographed. It is planned and practiced. It merely in response to the beat and not to His Spirit nor to the knowledge that He is worthy.
If you want dancing then go to the clubs. Respectfully
I have been in services where woman have let out a loud and terrifying war cry and took off running down the isle as parts of their anatomy moved every which way but a decent way. This of course brought much more attention to themselves than it did to God. I would rather see hands with white gloves, moving in ways I don't understand in unison any day than to see sister 250lb Bertha run that isle again. Needless to say, that scared me for life.
I'm just picturing that woman coming by and slapping you on the back. There goes Verlon flipped over into the next pew! He was in the spirit on the Lord's day!!!
Now I, for one, ENJOY choreographed worship. I like flags, and I like CLASSICAL dance in modest clothing. I saw a lady do this on a video clip at TDJ's church website. I thought it was an extremely beautiful expression, and she was modest--at least VERY modest for a charismatic. I love choreographed demonstrative sign language. I truly enjoy sticks, etc.
I saw a stick drama that represented a couple weighing the abortion issue.
It was very dramatic, touching and moving.
In the end it showed what the child became because they allowed it to have life.
For me the big deal is not that it is in rhythym or to the beat but that it is choreographed. It is planned and practiced. It merely in response to the beat and not to His Spirit nor to the knowledge that He is worthy.
If you want dancing then go to the clubs. Respectfully
I see that as the same as choir practice or a skit at Christmas, etc.
4) When have you personally watched a performance of choreographed worship and felt compelled to "shout unto God with the voice of triumph," speak in other tongues, or weep?
?
I was in a service a few weeks ago where someone did a ballet dance to "Champion of Love". She was perfectly modest when she did it. By the end I was weeping - along with almost everyone else in that service. The Presence of God was there in a powerful way!!!
__________________
Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of a battle ! ! ! !
The pastor that preached against women shaving legs and armpits was a person of principles and conviction and would fall in the UC category. But that didn't make this "forbidding to shave" teaching biblically correct. And it certainly didn't make it less disgusting!
What a wonderful Godly example! Armpit hair hanging out the arm hole of a woman's 3/4 length sleeve. Oh but wait! FULL LENGTH SLEEVES are the answer....... .
Point being....
Things change! Every thing thats new that comes along isn't wrong! And we don't have "bible" for over half the things we do!
Some have forgotten where God likes things done in unison. Think the walls of Jericho would have fallen if people blew their trumpets whenever they 'felt the spirit'? Probably not.
The Bible says there is nothing new under the sun, so it appears that flag waving and synchronization has happened before!
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
It is amazing that when my wife gets under the heavy power of God, she does not feel compelled to dance in a choreographed manner, but goes wild, does the whirly-bird, and if you are dumb enough to stand in her way--well, you're just plain dumb. She falls out in the Spirit.
I do find where David danced before the Lord. I never saw where he took dance classes.
I see where the Hebrews were told to shout unto the Lord. I am not sure where you draw the line between shouting and screaming. Seems to me they are pretty similar.
Next, someone will be trying to choreograph crying.
Now I, for one, ENJOY choreographed worship. I like flags, and I like CLASSICAL dance in modest clothing. I saw a lady do this on a video clip at TDJ's church website. I thought it was an extremely beautiful expression, and she was modest--at least VERY modest for a charismatic. I love choreographed demonstrative sign language. I truly enjoy sticks, etc.
I am just not sure whether these really should have a place in Apostolic worship. They seem to me to be more of "Apostolic Entertainment."
I could be wrong. Once again, please show Scripture, and give personal experience.
1) Where does Scripture tell us to "dance a new dance?"
2) Where does Scripture show us that anyone was trained to dance?
3) Where does Scripture show dramatics, in any form?
4) When have you personally watched a performance of choreographed worship and felt compelled to "shout unto God with the voice of triumph," speak in other tongues, or weep?
5) When have you personally performed choreographed worship and felt compelled to speak in other tongues, or weep, or to "shout unto God with the voice of triumph"?
6) Do you have accounts of people that have come to God, been baptized in Jesus Name, and received the Baptism of the Holy Ghost because of choreographed worship?
7) Do small churches grow when they establish choreographed worship, or is that large churches get larger or at least maintain their crowds because of these activities?
You may think that I am antagonistic towards the practice. On the contrary, I have told you that I actually see a lot of beauty in this. I personally like some of this stuff. I am looking for a compelling reason for why we should change our way of doing things. If I cannot find a compelling reason, then I have a hard time making a decision to change.
I personally think that every thing the church does should be based upon sound Bible principle and theology. Produce for me a Bible theology supporting this activity in worship and if I can see that it is sound in nature, I will work tirelessly to bring this forward in our movement.
Is that a fair challenge and request?
If it's wrong or unbiblical to 'practice' anything, then we should do away with choir, orchestra, and special singing practices!!! I mean, so what if the key is off and the timing isn't perfect, right? Isn't the worship more important than those things?
I challenge some of you to clap off time to songs in your church and see how many stares you get. Oh sure, they will be stares from those who obviously believe that synchronization isn't Biblical, but hey, you are worshipping, right?
I believe it was Paul that said let EVERYTHING be done decently and in order. This doesn't mean that worship is a field day of whathaveyou's, but rather, worship should be orderly. This gives way to those who wish to synchronize ways in which to worship and it's completely biblical to do so.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
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