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| Deep Waters 'Deep Calleth Unto Deep ' -The place to go for Ministry discussions. Please keep it civil. Remember to discuss the issues, not each other. |
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07-30-2007, 07:04 PM
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Shaking the dust off my shoes.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nunya bidness
Posts: 9,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Strange
Yes, of the seed (sperm) of Abraham.
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Huh? Last time I checked it was just her and the Holy Ghost when she conceived.
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07-30-2007, 07:06 PM
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Shaking the dust off my shoes.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nunya bidness
Posts: 9,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Strange
Mary and the Holy Ghost did not have a holy sexual encounter while violins were playing in the moonlight.
The seed of the woman was passed down from generation to generation stored in each until Mary said to the angel, "Let it be according to thy Word."
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WHAT??? The women carried the sperm in them somehow and it magically came to life inside of Mary? Am I reading you right???
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07-30-2007, 07:08 PM
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Shaking the dust off my shoes.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nunya bidness
Posts: 9,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
Rico if that's all you got out that post ... YOU'RE NITPICKING AS ALWAYS ... at issue here is the divine flesh doctrine, those that hold similar views, and whether as DM asked "What is the big deal"?
Go play w/ H.O.
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She's not here right now, and you are one to say anyone around here nitpicks! 
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07-30-2007, 07:10 PM
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Shaking the dust off my shoes.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nunya bidness
Posts: 9,004
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Some of the responses on this thread are what happens when men try to explain the supernatural. Some things are better left alone. What difference does it make how God empregnated Mary? The fact remains that He did and the Bible doesn't explain exactly how it happened, unless you want to come up with some ridiculous theory.
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07-30-2007, 07:16 PM
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Accepts all friends requests
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13,609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Strange
...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Strange
Maybe God took some sperm from Abraham of old and kept it in a sperm bank in heaven until the fulness of time? Whadayathink?
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The DF doctrine is a modern version of the ancient "heresy" of gnosticism. Basically, "God" is too pure and holy to have anything to do with this world, and so, when God became man He wasn't really a man, but just appeared to be.
All of the details were worked out in Neo-Platonic language that led to, among other things, the doctrine of the Trinity, etc.
Now, just IMHO: this current forum debate seems to involve the attempt by us all to use modern scientific knowledge and interweave it with the doctrines of the ancients. When you do this you end up corrupting science and making a mess of ancient wisdom. (And FWIW I also knew KR and am familiar with his thoughts on the incarnation).
How about this: the Virgin Birth of Christ was an example of parthenogenesis. Partheno= virgin; Genesis=birth or beginning.
When some "lower" animals like sharks are segregated by zoo keepers to control their numbers, inevitably a female will produce offspring without the usual sexual reproduction.
This has never been observed in mammals or humans, so when the event did occur in antiquity it was observed to be "miraculous." Mary's gamete with its 23 completely human chromosomes spontaneously differentiated and produced a growing embryo with each cell having 46 chromosomes.
Where did the "other" 23 come from? They also "came from" Mary. This is a process that has been observed clinically 1,000's of times - just not involving humans as I said. There is something remarkably complex about the way human cells differentiate that we are only beginning to understand. Of course, in the case of miraculous human parthenogenesis we may never really understand it all.
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07-30-2007, 07:16 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Well to be honest ... I rank DF doctrine, divine sperm/blood doctrine, PAJC doctrine and the JW doctrine of not celebrating Christmas on an equal footing ...
POOR MAN'S THEOLOGY.
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07-30-2007, 07:19 PM
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Shaking the dust off my shoes.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nunya bidness
Posts: 9,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
Well to be honest ... I rank DF doctrine, divine sperm/blood doctrine, PAJC doctrine and the JW doctrine of not celebrating Christmas on an equal footing ...
POOR MAN'S THEOLOGY.
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The Bible says plenty about those whose sole purpose is to sow discord as well.
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07-30-2007, 07:21 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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A solid post P .. thank you for correcting my number of 48 to 46 chromosomes ... it's been awhile since I've been in a bio class.
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07-30-2007, 08:10 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
As silly as the doctrine of divine flesh is ... I don't think any proponent of this doctrine will agree with your assessment that they deny that he is our kinsman redeemer ... I'm sure if we had a DFer they would explain to us what they think this means ...
The ironic thing is most DFers believe in PAJC doctrine and are ardent Acts 2:38 ....
Why eat your own?
This is the most disturbing thing about many traditional OPers ... they want to make conclusions for everyone ... Like Trinnies believe in 3 gods ... DFers deny the humanity of Christ, etc. |
I didn't intend to say THEY say that. I believe I was saying that is the conclusion OF what they believe.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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07-30-2007, 08:12 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind
Adam and Eve did not have human parents. They were created by God just as much, if not more, than what Christ was. Psalms says, "ye are gods". They were just as divine as Christ, "the new Adam".
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So what if Adam and Eve did not have Human parents? In fact they had NO parents. Adam was made and created from dirt and Eve from Adams rib....if the fact that God made them makes them divine then do cows have divine flesh too?
Psalms does not call Adam and Eve gods...which is polythism btw. Did you know the word elohim can be translated judges?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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