Ministry Ranking

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Pardon me for using this word... but ...... BULL!!!!

I don't buy it.

You know, I'll never understand why people stay in abusive relationships. Dude, it works both ways. Many pastors have been horribly hurt by abusive saints and churches.

The real church is modeled after NT principles, and yes the ministry does have oversight and authority.

I agree that the ministry has oversight and authority. As they should.

I'm sorry for the harshness of the post. I guess there are areas that I'm still a little tender.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Kutless

I agree that the ministry has oversight and authority. As they should.

I'm sorry for the harshness of the post. I guess there are areas that I'm still a little tender.

I understand.

I just want it known that all ministry is not abusive and controlling. The majority of ministers are kind, loving, generous shepherds. I don't understand why people stay in abusive relationships when there are good pastors around.

I think it may have to do with social status and an unwillingness by laity to attend a smaller unattractive church that they may need to actually be involved in instead of sitting on their duffs.

I better shut up. This topic really steams me.

It's like when young men whine about not being used in their large church and then would never consider starting a church or going to help a man who would really use him in a godly way. It infuriates me.

[DividedThigh]

Kutless, power and authority in the church is not determined by men but by god, if we take it, then we are proud, but if god grants it then we are his servants. The real deal with men and women and authority in the church is about submission, not others to us, but us to god. The empowerment of god comes with our submission to him and his will. We get into trouble always when we begin to believe and practice that it is us,not Him.dt

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by tbpew

right on bro,
but a thoughtful consideration would include the real possibility that men are taking on responsibility that is NOT appointed unto them.

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
And then let GOD BUILD his own CHURCH.

In YOUR church you have ALL the responsibility and ALL the authority to do whatever you want. Just make sure you tell YOUR disciples who THEIR master is and who the builder and maker is of the church they are a part of.

Maybe, just maybe, there is real misconception of areas and roles involving responsibility because there is a real misconception about WHOSE CHURCH IT IS, aka CHURCH ownership.

respectfully and soberly submitted,
tbpew

BTW, I do agree with tbpew that some men view the church as a family business.

[DividedThigh]

Pastor Poster, you sound like you have the true heart of a Pastor. i agree with you not all leadership is abusive, been around long enough to see both sides of that, good man, dt

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

Kutless, power and authority in the church is not determined by men but by god, if we take it, then we are proud, but if god grants it then we are his servants. The real deal with men and women and authority in the church is about submission, not others to us, but us to god. The empowerment of god comes with our submission to him and his will. We get into trouble always when we begin to believe and practice that it is us,not Him.dt

Thankyou DT. I think the key word in this post is servant.

My knowledge may not be as wide spread as a Pastor Poster but I can tell you from what I have seen in 35 years the churches that grow and are successful are the ones who have Pastor/servants.

The ones that want to announce their authority will ultimately fail.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

Pastor Poster, you sound like you have the true heart of a Pastor. i agree with you not all leadership is abusive, been around long enough to see both sides of that, good man, dt

You are very kind.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Kutless

Thankyou DT. I think the key word in this post is servant.

My knowledge may not be as wide spread as a Pastor Poster but I can tell you from what I have seen in 35 years the churches that grow and are successful are the ones who have Pastor/servants.

The ones that want to announce their authority will ultimately fail.

And saints that want to assert their authority won't last long in the church I pastor. If that stifles growth - oh well. It wouldn't be real growth anyway.

Lets talk about the servanthood of lay ministers and saints. Why does no one ever mention that on AFF? It's because we have a bunch of stiffnecks who think ministry owes them something instead of being appreciative of the spiritual authority God has placed in their lives.

[DividedThigh]

well thanks guys, but there is one more word that so many run from, all want authority, power and responsibility, well most want the first two and a few take the third, but it is rare that men and women realize that accountability goes along with those, to god and to our people, dt

[Kutless]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

And saints that want to assert their authority won't last long in the church I pastor. If that stifles growth - oh well. It wouldn't be real growth anyway.

Lets talk about the servanthood of lay ministers and saints. Why does no one ever mention that on AFF? It's because we have a bunch of stiffnecks who think ministry owes them something instead of being appreciative of the spiritual authority God has placed in their lives.

I sure hope you were not reffering to me here.


I want it to be known that I respect my Pastor. I am ready a willing to serve at any cost. And have and will continue to show that.