Obey them that have the rule over you

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

My first Bible was a KJV: the Lord directed me to it from among 4-5 different versions. I also use a Strongs Concordance, but only as a guide. Fact is, I have two. One is from 1982, and a newer version. I feel the older one is a better version...and they ARE NOT the same. I'm still comparing them.

I have an original 1611 KJV, it is very hard to read.

If the KJV Only crowd really believed their theory, they would use an actual 1611 Bible, not the updated versions.

the fact that they do not read or use the original 1611 KJV version is proof that they themselves do not believe their own propaganda.

by the way the original 1611 KJV had the Apocrypha in it.
So the KJV Only crowd must accept the Apocrypha otherwise they show themselves to be hypocrites.

[Aquila]

Obedience is simply receiving and heeding sound biblical and spiritual teaching, knowledge, wisdom, and perhaps even discipline. Learning from those mistakes you made, and respecting the elders who prayed for you the whole time you made them. It's more akin to heeding the counsel of a mentor or teacher. It's not a legalistic command that makes an elder your dictatorial lord and master.

Hebrews 13:17 (NLT)
17 Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit.

Catholics have priests. New Agers have gurus. Muslims have Imams. Born again, Bible Christians have... "elders".

Notice... within the body we have "brothers", "sisters", and "elders". These are familial terms. We must realize... we're family. The "elders" are like the elders of the family. They advise, counsel, teach, and set the example. They are not meant to act like the CEOs that mainstream Western institutional religion has made them.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I have an original 1611 KJV, it is very hard to read.

If the KJV Only crowd really believed their theory, they would use an actual 1611 Bible, not the updated versions.

the fact that they do not read or use the original 1611 KJV version is proof that they themselves do not believe their own propaganda.

by the way the original 1611 KJV had the Apocrypha in it.
So the KJV Only crowd must accept the Apocrypha otherwise they show themselves to be hypocrites.

The Apocrypha was ordered in 1611 to be part of the Bible for historical reference only.
It was removed later.(1800s)

There was a great respect for the new English Bible and the king did not want anyone tampering with any part of the collection of books.

This Catholic Church had done everything in their power to eradicate this KJV English Bible.

Now, the Protestants are doing it themselves!!!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Nothing amazing about this whatsoever. God uses what we have in our brains, and KJV is by far the most popular translation that has been read and memorized for centuries. If you'd been reading and memorizing NKJV for he past 35 years it would come out NKJV.

You know what's crazy is...if you were to go to China, to an underground service, and someone was to burst forth quoting scripture under the unction of the Holy Ghost...it won't be 1600's King's English, bro. It will probably be MANDARIN. It will be a translation in THEIR OWN LANGUAGE...which will probably be a translation that was done sometime in the past 100 years, by Trinitarian missionaries.

Nice to meet you too!...LOL

I would like to get you view on these posts and some of my resources of this proir thread.

Gail Riplinger has a video link here about errant Bibles.......

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I have an original 1611 KJV, it is very hard to read.
If the KJV Only crowd really believed their theory, they would use an actual 1611 Bible, not the updated versions.
the fact that they do not read or use the original 1611 KJV version is proof that they themselves do not believe their own propaganda.
by the way the original 1611 KJV had the Apocrypha in it.
So the KJV Only crowd must accept the Apocrypha otherwise they show themselves to be hypocrites.

I use a 1611 KJV and I can read it as I would today's English. Fact is, I
found those modern
versions very difficult to understand!
The hardest thing about the KJV is trying to find a scripture in the concordance...because
I have to use the "correct" English to access it.
I found the apocrypha to be incompatible with the KJV, and with
its doctrines.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Pendragon

In response to the OP:

I think a critical part of this passage is found in the first verse you quoted, 7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

In the NIV, "Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith."

One of the reasons I no longer obey and follow a certain man of God (I began following another; I am not leaderless) is because his life was far less than a shining light. The outcome of his way of life and his interpretation of scriptures resulted in a life that was barren of the fruit of the Spirit. His wife was even worse.

As we know, scripture interprets scripture, and Isaiah shows us that we build a foundation not with just one bit of knowledge or scripture, but 'line upon line, precept upon precept'.

Matthew 7:15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."

If you were to simply accept 'them that have the rule over you' and blindly follow the pastor in whose church you were raised, or received the Holy Ghost, or however you came to be there, you might end up following a woefully inadequate leader, or an outright false sheep. On the other hand, if you look at the multiple verses above, and the principles they teach, you will come to realize that you need to not only listen to what your pastor is teaching, but how he lives his life. I heard fantastic teaching from my old pastor. His brain was chock full of scripture, and it came out in his teaching. I am grateful for many of the sermons I heard when I was in his church. But ultimately I realized his personal life and behavior was far below what is expected of a child of God and I moved on. Everyone struggles with things, but there is a big difference between a child of God who is weak in some areas, and someone who just doesn't bear any fruit whatsoever. There is no way he should have been in a position of authority. It was definitely the right decision to move on.

Excellent post! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with us!

It is a very difficult thing to have to come to the place where you realize that those you have trusted and who you have allowed to be in leadership in your life, are not truly following Christ and are not allowing for the fruit of the spirit to be manifest in their lives. If you are not in a position to be able to share your concern with that person in leadership, or they won't hear you out, then moving on unfortunately is what has to take place.

Have you read Watchman Nee's book on Spiritual Authority. I found it very good on this particular subject.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Obedience is simply receiving and heeding sound biblical and spiritual teaching, knowledge, wisdom, and perhaps even discipline. Learning from those mistakes you made, and respecting the elders who prayed for you the whole time you made them. It's more akin to heeding the counsel of a mentor or teacher. It's not a legalistic command that makes an elder your dictatorial lord and master.

Hebrews 13:17 (NLT)
17 Obey your spiritual leaders, and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this with joy and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit.

Catholics have priests. New Agers have gurus. Muslims have Imams. Born again, Bible Christians have... "elders".

Notice... within the body we have "brothers", "sisters", and "elders". These are familial terms. We must realize... we're family. The "elders" are like the elders of the family. They advise, counsel, teach, and set the example. They are not meant to act like the CEOs that mainstream Western institutional religion has made them.

Right. The OPs say they have left the Catholic teachings behind, but they really haven't. They just tweaked them a bit, but a wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf.

Jesus gave us a perfect understanding of how the disciples were to have leadership after His death in Mark 10:42-45.

[shazeep]

nice

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

I use a 1611 KJV and I can read it as I would today's English. Fact is, I
found those modern
versions very difficult to understand!
The hardest thing about the KJV is trying to find a scripture in the concordance...because
I have to use the "correct" English to access it.
I found the apocrypha to be incompatible with the KJV, and with
its doctrines.

Correction you use an "updated" 1611 KJV

You do not use a 1611 KJV.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

I have an original 1611 KJV, it is very hard to read.

If the KJV Only crowd really believed their theory, they would use an actual 1611 Bible, not the updated versions.

the fact that they do not read or use the original 1611 KJV version is proof that they themselves do not believe their own propaganda.

by the way the original 1611 KJV had the Apocrypha in it.
So the KJV Only crowd must accept the Apocrypha otherwise they show themselves to be hypocrites.

This is ignorant.

The "updated" KJVs are updated in regards to spelling and typeface (font).

The Apocrypha was included in the KJV in between the OT and the NT. That fact, coupled with the fsct it was labelled "apocrypha", clearly shows the translators did not view it as the Word. They even prefaced it with a statement to that effect.

And yes, I have a 1611 version. And I doubt you have an original or a COPY of "the original" since the 1611s sold at bookstores are set in a different font. The ORIGINAL is in a calligraphic Olde English font whereas the store "facsimiles" are in a unique Romanized typeface. The store versions also lack the geneology charts. A true facsimile copy is available only one place and it ain't cheap.