born of water

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by jfrog

The sound of the rushing mighty wind in acts 2 had nothing to do with John 3

Sure it does! The wind in both places indicates a movement of the Holy Spirit.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Sure it does! The wind in both places indicates a movement of the Holy Spirit.

John 3 is an analogy that believers who are born of the spirit will be like the wind.

Acts 2 has the spirit itself causing the sound of a wind. That's much different.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by jfrog

The sound of the rushing mighty wind in acts 2 had nothing to do with John 3

Nothing????


John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.(the wind blows here, but it cannot be felt. The direction it is coming from is undetectable. The only way it can be detected at all is by the SOUND of a wind. This is a MIRACLE)




Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.(the SOUND of a wind filled the house that they were sitting, not a wind. No wind was actually felt, but only HEARD. This also is a miracle)


This MIRACLE Jesus spoke of in John 3, was fulfilled in Acts 2, to be COMPLETED by water birth here.....

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by jfrog

John 3 is an analogy that believers who are born of the spirit will be like the wind.

Acts 2 has the spirit itself causing the sound of a wind. That's much different.

bump for Sean

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Sean

Amen to the above statement!



Look at Romans 6....

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?(those that are NOT baptized are NOT baptized into His death))

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.(How can we walk in newness of life if we are not "buried with him BY baptism" yet?)

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:(buried by baptism is also being "planted". If we are not baptized, we are not planted, nor ready to be resurrected either)

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.(baptism is also called a "crucifixion" here)

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.(verse 4 says we are "buried with Him by baptism INTO death". If we are not baptized, we are not dead to sin yet and subsequently not free from sin)

This ENTIRE passage cannot apply to those that have not been baptized yet, therefore water baptism is absolutely essential and AUTOMATICALLY part of the spiritual regeneration process.

If a person is NOT baptized, they are NOT saved!

Seems acts 10 destroys this position. They got filled with the Spirit (resurrection) without being water baptized (burial, baptized into his death)

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by jfrog

And John 3:5 does not negate John 3:7-8
instead of being combative, think about the implications of what u are saying. If water and spirit is one birth then how can Jesus refer to those just born of the spirit. And if water and spirit denote two births why doesn't jesus say you need to be twice born again. Those are the implications of your interpretation of John 3:5

Oooh, "combative"...LOL! That is so funny. Methinks some folks do not like to hear a sword unsheathed!

Beloved, this is how I read (not interpret) John 3:3-5, as they correlate to Mark 16:16:
"He that believes...": John 3:3 (eyes opened by God to see and choose;
...and is baptized...": John 3:5 (water baptism into) death;
...SHALL BE saved." John 3:5 (receive Holy Spirit/GRACE (unto eternal life)

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

Seems acts 10 destroys this position. They got filled with the Spirit (resurrection) without being water baptized (burial, baptized into his death)

Acts 10 "destroys" Romans 6???


When they were not baptized, they were still dead in their trespasses and sins, that is why they were baptized that very day.

If you agree that baptism is a burial,Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death.....

then you believe that the souls in the N.T. that received the Spirit, prior to baptism were BURIED ALIVE!!!


Not cool bro...

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I cannot see how the spiritual body in 1 Cor 15 is speaking about water baptism burial. The context of he chapter is physical resurrection of bodies form the grave and change in the coming of Christ. Not baptism. The spiritual body is a physical body that was mortal but changed to be immortal, as Christ was changed in the tomb when He resurrected to have a body that never dies again.

Romans 6 says baptism is into death. It is burial, but burial into death. We are baptized into His death.

Amen
I Corinthians 15:
1-4_____is the gospel that saves;
42-46___is the sowing and reaping of the natural and spiritual bodies, respectively. "..sown in
corruption...raised in incorruption..."

Yes: baptism is into death ; the Holy Spirit is unto eternal life (grace).

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It's really kind of simple...

John 3:5 (ESV)
5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Beloved, sometimes our (man's) complicated brains cannot fathom the simplicity of the gospel!

[Sean]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Beloved, sometimes our (man's) complicated brains cannot fathom the simplicity of the gospel!

Especially those brains that do not agree with the ESSENTIALITY of water baptism to be saved.