Question?

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

I said we are ALL wrong. ALL, you know, everyone, including YOU and ME. But since you think your are right with your Religion, then I guess we're done unless you pull the "Box" off of your head to see who you really are, a deceived individual using Spectral Evidence to validate facts about outlandish ideas that make you better than those who disagree with you.

"Thank you, God, that I am like the rest of men." Merton

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

????

Just 2?

Oops, lol... 3

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

An Apostolic Church would believe Jesus is the Father and the Son. No doubt. They would teach the Holy Spirit baptism as in Acts.

But really is that ALL that accounts for to be an Apostolic Church?

I would love to find a real Apostolic Church to attend. Sadly all that's available here are pre trib, immortal soul, standards of men type Churches.

Hi, Brother

Are there no churches in which you could begin to attend and as a seasoned saint, help them to establish a more accurate doctrinal understanding in the areas you listed above?

Not as an infiltrator looking to cause division, but as a long time believer that has a sound handle on the truth?

Maybe there is a nearby assembly that needs your service and understanding of the Word in order to be perfected by the Lord?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Hi, Brother

Are there no churches in which you could begin to attend and as a seasoned saint, help them to establish a more accurate doctrinal understanding in the areas you listed above?

Not as an infiltrator looking to cause division, but as a long time believer that has a sound handle on the truth?

Maybe there is a nearby assembly that needs your service and understanding of the Word in order to be perfected by the Lord?

Well Bro I certainly have been down that road. My experience showed that you ARE considered an infiltrator if you show up at Church and believe something different especially if you are serious about it.

If you believe something but tell them "it don't really matter" or "its not a salvation issue" perhaps you might have a chance. But then if that's ones attitude about truth then what good IS truth?

One might say well first prove yourself that you only seek the good of the body THEN MAYBE someday they will hear you out.

I was made an elder in an Apostolic Church back in 1981. More than once when I taught something in the Church meeting the Pastor came right up behind me and contradicted me.

When I was an elder in a Trinitarian Pentecostal Church before that things were fine for about a year. As long as I taught on holiness, loving Jesus general things I was loved and accepted. The Pastor told me up front he and I could talk about baptism in Jesus name but I was not to teach it or try to convert anyone to it.

Well in time Jesus showed me how important it was to him. I preached on it in Church one Sunday morning. I was told "you cant preach that here".

Other times this brought the same result. So yes I have been there done that. Part 1

[Michael The Disciple]

Bro Aaron, Since I believe you to be a serious man of God I will tell you where Im at right now. Several years ago we began attending an Apostolic Church in our town. We were desperate.

It was a typical Church. Pre trib, immortal soul, holidays, false standards. Come to Church for the meetings every time to prove to us who you are. Find a nice pew to sit on for amens.

We approached a couple there for fellowship outside of attending Church together. When we went to their house by and by the wife brought up the typical standards line and basically let us know we would not be accepted in fellowship unless we came around.

The Pastor himself never approached us about fellowship. Like so many I really think he feels "fellowship" is sitting on a pew listening to sermons!

Fast forward till now. There is an Assembly Of God Church down the road that is post trib. I visited it a bout 6 weeks ago. It was good to hear end time truth. They are of course Trins which I have preached against (the doctrine) for 30 years.

I am actually considering maybe making an attempt at going there. Yes again we are desperate for fellowship. Im pretty sure it would not work but something has got to give soon.

Part of me feels like in compromising I would have wasted most of my life. Why didn't I just compromise decades ago and saved myself a lot of strife? And yet when I think of listening to false doctrine being amened and taught to unsuspecting souls my heart cries out "contend for the faith once delivered to the saints"!

So anyway just wanted to let you know where Im at.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

We do. We've attended the same UPCI church for the last 14 years; an ultra-con independent church for 4.5 years before that, and my Dad's church for most of my growing up years. He was UPCI and leaned conservative. My early childhood pastors included Nathaniel Lewis (MO), Carroll McGruder (MO) and Carl Ballestero (LA).

TELL US MORE!!!

[votivesoul]

So anyway just wanted to let you know where Im at.

Thanks for the honest reply, Bro. I've never had to walk in such shoes so I can't really comment. Right now, I'm in a place where I am in agreement/disagreement about 80/20. I am considered an elder and trusted leader in the assembly and I do what I can for any soul in need.

But sometimes, I admit, that 20 percent I don't agree with gnaws at me. I can get pretty fired up. But then I remember patience and prayer. I've been praying fervently for things to change for about three years now and God has moved. Just when I want to give up and worry that I need to move along, God does something behind closed doors with the hearts of the pastors, and I hear amazing things.

Just recently one of the pastors had to be off work for 12 weeks due to a shoulder injury that required surgery. Two days before he went back to work, on a Wednesday night service, he told me God spoke to him at the altar call. He said God said "I broke you to fix you".

And indeed, such is true. This brother, one of the pastors, is leading the charge in a renewed understanding of God's love and grace, doctrines that haven't been preached in my church in years. It is causing the whole assembly to change.

Just recently, another of the pastors, who is considered the Senior Pastor, just preached how Jesus Christ is the only Shepherd and Bishop of our souls, and essentially took himself and his position down about 10 pegs in front of the whole congregation.

This is a big deal, because this pastor was trained by a monarchial bishop to be #1, no competitors. And I've been praying for so long, waiting for so long, for my church to adopt a plurality of elders approach to church polity, and by the grace of God, it is happening!

Granted, there are some potential deal breakers that will have to get dealt with but my point is only that with a whole lot of patience (usually more than any one man has a right to have) and a lot of hope and faith, perhaps God can use you to turn things around.

In any event, the Lord knows them that are His, and I am sure you belong to Him and that He knows it. May He grant you the desires of your heart. God bless.

[obriencp]

thanks for your posts Michael and Votive. I torn as well because I want the Lord to lead and guide so I am intentionally challenging my "doctrine" and currently going to a trin pentecostal church, AofG. After leaving the church i was raised in, visiting many different churches, and talking with different christians and ministers, I find that every church is different... even within the same organization. There may be slight differences in doctrine from church to church, saint to saint. Sometimes this is acceptable sometimes it's magnified to push some away. I don't agree with 100% of what is taught, but I don't know if one will ever agree 100%.

I was raised OP 3-stepper and although I still lean that way, I'm not as judgmental to those who embrace scriptures that prove otherwise.

[Sean]

Michael, I am pretty much in your shoes right now, but I think I would rather sit in a more conservative, oneness church, that a trin. church. Unless the Lord wanted to use me as a "plant", to bring folks my way.

Listening to the trinny sermons every week would drive me through the roof...LOL

[KeptByTheWord]

Another option here is to open your home to fellowship. This is what we have done. I understand the 20% that VS talks about that eventually is like the splinter in your finger, you can only tolerate it for so long, but then something has to give, and its got to come out.

We have tried different churches here in our area, and all of them are Trinity, or Baptist leaning, or don't believe in the moving of the Holy Ghost at all. The one AoG church leans more towards a community, nondenominational type church now, and there is no move of the spirit there.

So, all this combined led us to begin to have worship in our home. We knew of several other families in our area who were hungry for more of God, and who also felt very similar to us. So, we meet in our home, and the Lord has blessed.

I would at least leave this open as an option, and present it to the Lord, and see what He can do with it, MTD. I know you love truth, and I believe you love to teach and lead people. You might be surprised at what doors the Lord could open up for you.