Random Revival Rhetoric

[votivesoul]

And since these things are so, the original quote given in the first post, and the context behind the quote (i.e. Matthew 18:20), goes to show how mistaken the idea really is.

[n david]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Why this one little phrase uttered by the Lord gets twisted to mean all sorts of things is beyond me.

Matthew 18 is regarding church discipline and how to handle sins and offenses, and if two or three people in the church agree on how to handle such things, the Lord is with them to help them bring about righteousness in the assembly.

Thank you! I posted about this in a thread a few months ago.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Why this one little phrase uttered by the Lord gets twisted to mean all sorts of things is beyond me.

Matthew 18 is regarding church discipline and how to handle sins and offenses, and if two or three people in the church agree on how to handle such things, the Lord is with them to help them bring about righteousness in the assembly.

Matthew 18:15-20,



Trespass between members of God's church, right? Handled discreetly, without anyone else's influence or interference. Be hopeful for reconciliation.



Step One in the process failed. Now, others in the church have to be involved for the sake of unity.



If Step Two fails, and no reconciliation between the two member of the church is achieved, then the entire assembly has to get involved to have a hearing on the matter. Whoever is found to be the guilty party, he is to no longer be considered a member of the covenanted community of God (i.e. a heathen).



Whatsoever we bind on earth in terms of church discipline ONLY, will be bound in heaven, that is, if the church determines against someone, and decides that the person originally involved in the trespass is a heathen and a publican, then heaven will look at that person the same way.



The two or three here are the two or three witnesses originally called upon to seek and restore reconciliation. But when their counsel is denied or rejected, and they have to, on account of the Lord's teaching here in Matthew 18, initiate a church wide hearing against the offending brother, and the church rules against him, then the Lord is with them in what they are doing, and will respond positively to their petition to guide them in the actions they are undertaking to either restore or ex-communicate the offending member.

Now finish Matthew 18 with the parable about the unjust, unforgiving steward, who was delivered into prison to be tortured. This is the destiny of the heathen/publican who offended earlier and above.

The Lord said our Heavenly Father will do the same to us, should we not forgive. Bound in heaven, remember?

When the church has to legitimately remove one of it's own, God Himself, agrees with the actions of the church, and so, delivers the removed member into torments, i.e. a backslidden, no longer saved state, eventually culminating in eternal damnation, should true repentance never occur.

Thank you for this, but don't mistake that verse 19 is not only speaking of the case mentioned, but it also speaks of anything else that relates to ourselves or others as verse 18 implies and reiterates in verse 20.


18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Please observe Matthew 16:18-19. He isn't speaking of ONLY church discipline here, but the Gospel and all it entails.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

[houston]

Um, WRONG!

[shazeep]

why do you say wrong?

[n david]

"Bless God, there may not be many here in church today, but we have two or three so Jesus is here," said no Scripture ever.

[houston]

Originally Posted by shazeep

why do you say wrong?

because she is trying to make it as if Matt 16 and 18 are on the same page.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by houston

because she is trying to make it as if Matt 16 and 18 are on the same page.

I believe there will always be differing views on this.

One thing we should take note is that the Greek is in the perfect tense passive voice participle, which is suggesting that any binding and/or any loosing has already occurred and those effects of that action remain.

You would read the passages as such – “Whatever you shall bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”

If Peter or anyone else were to bind or loose anything in the present, that something has already been bound or loosed, in the past, and continues to remain either bound or loosed by God.

IOW, the “whatever” doesn’t give us free reign, but must be weighed against what is already written in God’s Word.

[Abiding Now]

So WHO is Cort Chaviss?

[A239]

The friday night speaker at the UPCI North American Youth Congress last year in Kentucky.