The Gift of Tongues and Initial Evidence

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I looked at your crayola art and simply had to do something to it. I saved the pic, ran some of my Photoshop magic using a few proprietary plug ins and. . . .

Here ya go!

I can see I need a little practice. Might have to get into watercolor pencils.



Hey, he's a girl?!

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I can see I need a little practice. Might have to get into watercolor pencils.



Hey, he's a girl?!

That surprised me too!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

That surprised me too!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahaha!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Well, since people are still receiving the Holy Ghost and the operation of the gifts are still taking place, God would have to have, Himself, ended all of it. Guess that means I could never be a Preterist.

It seems clear that tongues is part of salvation. You can see that, clearly, in Acts 10:44-47. Paul was questioned by the elders of Jerusalem, shortly thereafter, about what happened at Cornelius' house.

His defense was built upon the very evidence that they had spoken in tongues.

PO if tongues are a part of salvation was essentially no one saved in your opinion from the 2nd (or 3rd) century through the 19th?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

PO if tongues are a part of salvation was essentially no one saved in your opinion from the 2nd (or 3rd) century through the 19th?

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Word of God - the eternal Word.

Therefore, I believe Isaish 55:11 "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

Someone is always being or going to be saved, even in the 2nd or 3rd century through the 19th.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I believe that Jesus Christ is the Word of God - the eternal Word.

Therefore, I believe Isaish 55:11 "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

Someone is always being or going to be saved, even in the 2nd or 3rd century through the 19th.

Nice deflection. Quite political of you. Kind of Romneyesque.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Nice deflection. Quite political of you. Kind of Romneyesque.

LOL! Well, let's look at John the Baptist. He died before Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. He and others had to believe the same as Cornelius' household - "To him give all the prophets witness...".

I believe their salvation was only possible because of the certainty of Jesus' sacrifice. Galatians 3:8

Let me further add that any Jew or Gentile (because there were some Gentiles who believed in and followed the Jewish faith) who continued to be in Covenant with God under the Law, not yet hearing or understanding anything about Jesus' Christ, would be saved as well. IOW, if Cornelius had died before Jesus was crucified, I believe he would have been saved.

[renee819]

Jason wrote,

PO if tongues are a part of salvation was essentially no one saved in your opinion from the 2nd (or 3rd) century through the 19th?

Jason, I believe that is what the Great White Throne of Judgment is for.

Those that are born again, as Peter told us in Acts 2:38, will rise at The First Resurrection. All others, will come up at the GWT.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him (The Holy Ghost) that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you

.

Those that BELIEVE in Jesus, are BELIEVERS. But until they receive the Holy Ghost, they are not 'born again.' The Spirit of God, which is the Holy Ghost does not DWELL in them.
The Samatitians were Believers, until Peter prayed for them.
The Ephesians in Acts 19, were Believers, until Paul baptized them in Jesus name and they received the Holy Ghost.

I believe that we have a nation of Believers, that need to be baptized in Jesus name and receive the Holy Ghost. And it is a shame that we have thousands of Pentecostal and Apostolic Churches, that are majoring on the minor things, like hair and clothing. Building Temples with peoples tithes. And living like Kings over a little Kingdom or if not dictators, then running their church as a business and a movie theater. I mean by that performers, usually paid performers on stage, while the saints become spectators.

It is my opinion that God is leaving the churches, but is stirring up individuals.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by renee819

Jason wrote,


Jason, I believe that is what the Great White Throne of Judgment is for.

Those that are born again, as Peter told us in Acts 2:38, will rise at The First Resurrection. All others, will come up at the GWT.

.

Those that BELIEVE in Jesus, are BELIEVERS. But until they receive the Holy Ghost, they are not 'born again.' The Spirit of God, which is the Holy Ghost does not DWELL in them.
The Samaritans were Believers, until Peter prayed for them.
The Ephesians in Acts 19, were Believers, until Paul baptized them in Jesus name and they received the Holy Ghost.

I believe that we have a nation of Believers, that need to be baptized in Jesus name and receive the Holy Ghost. And it is a shame that we have thousands of Pentecostal and Apostolic Churches, that are majoring on the minor things, like hair and clothing. Building Temples with peoples tithes. And living like Kings over a little Kingdom or if not dictators, then running their church as a business and a movie theater. I mean by that performers, usually paid performers on stage, while the saints become spectators.

It is my opinion that God is leaving the churches, but is stirring up individuals.

Have to agree with this!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by renee819

Jason wrote,

Jason, I believe that is what the Great White Throne of Judgment is for.

Those that are born again, as Peter told us in Acts 2:38, will rise at The First Resurrection. All others, will come up at the GWT.

.

Those that BELIEVE in Jesus, are BELIEVERS. But until they receive the Holy Ghost, they are not 'born again.' The Spirit of God, which is the Holy Ghost does not DWELL in them.
The Samatitians were Believers, until Peter prayed for them.
The Ephesians in Acts 19, were Believers, until Paul baptized them in Jesus name and they received the Holy Ghost.

I believe that we have a nation of Believers, that need to be baptized in Jesus name and receive the Holy Ghost. And it is a shame that we have thousands of Pentecostal and Apostolic Churches, that are majoring on the minor things, like hair and clothing. Building Temples with peoples tithes. And living like Kings over a little Kingdom or if not dictators, then running their church as a business and a movie theater. I mean by that performers, usually paid performers on stage, while the saints become spectators.

It is my opinion that God is leaving the churches, but is stirring up individuals.

Renee I don't have a problem with Romans 8:11, nor will you find me in any of my nearly 4,000 posts arguing someone can be saved without the Spirit.

I would argue the Bible does not make a distinction between (genuine) believers and those who are born again, both terms refer to the same people. John 1:12 and Ephesians 1:13-14 equivocate genuine belief as the point of regeneration. Which Paul also teaches earlier in Romans chapter 4. Throughout the ministry of Jesus the emphasis was on belief not Spirit baptism. Jesus certainly spoke of the baptism of the Spirit, but never taught it as something we must "do". The "do" was to BELIEVE then the Spirit was to be a gift for all true believers (cf John 7:37-39).
This does not discard what God did with tongues in Acts or subsequently but does suggest that regeneration can be accomplished apart from speaking in tongues.

Furthermore tongues is never related to any passage explaining salvation in the NT. In particular Believers are told the EVIDENCE of rebirth is love for other believers, love for Christ and obedience to His commands, bearing the fruit of the Spirit, and ALL of the tests in 1 John for the genuine believer. None of which suggest (nor explicitly teach) that tongues is necessary for salvation/regeneration.