He who restraineth???

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So the reason people dont understand what is restraining or holding back the revelation of Jesus coming is because they erroneously believe verse 6 to be referring to the man of sin rather than Pauls intent, that it is the revelation of JESUS that is being restrained because those two things must first occur.

The revelation of Jesus is what was being restrained?

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJV)

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(2 Thessalonians 2:4-6 KJV)

The context is not "the revelation of Jesus being restrained". the context is the revealing of the man of sin. Something is restraining or hindering the revealing of the man of sin. This something was hindering things so that the man of sin could be revealed "in his time". There was a time appointed for the man of sin to be revealed, and that which was hindering was hindering in order that the man of sin not be revealed BEFORE HIS TIME.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(2 Thessalonians 2:7 KJV)

The mystery of lawlessness was already working in Paul's day. This would have led to the imminent revealing of the man of sin, BUT something was hindering that so that the man of sin wasn't revealed too soon. The man of sin was to be revealed later on.

This hindrance would continue to hinder, until it was removed. "Taken out of the way" as the Bible states.

Until he be taken out of the way (heōs ek mesou genētai). Usual construction with heōs for the future (aorist middle subjunctive, genētai). Note absence of an as often in N.T. and the Koiné‚. Paul uses heōs only here and 1Co_4:5. When the obstacle is removed then the mystery of lawlessness will be revealed in plain outline. Robertson's Word Pictures

Will let, until he be taken out of the way - This will be an effectual check on these corruptions, preventing their full development, until it is removed, and then the man of sin will appear. The supposition which will best suit this language is, that there was then some civil restraint, preventing the development of existing corruptions, but that there would be a removal, or withdrawing of that restraint; and that then the tendency of the existing corruptions would be seen. It is evident, as Oldshausen remarks, that this resisting or restraining power must be something out of the church, and distinguished from the anti-Christian tendency itself; yon der Kirche und vom Antichristenthum. It is necessary, therefore, to understand this of the restraints of civil power. - Barnes' Notes

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The revelation of Jesus is what was being restrained?

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(2 Thessalonians 2:3 KJV)

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
(2 Thessalonians 2:4-6 KJV)

The context is not "the revelation of Jesus being restrained". the context is the revealing of the man of sin. Something is restraining or hindering the revealing of the man of sin. This something was hindering things so that the man of sin could be revealed "in his time". There was a time appointed for the man of sin to be revealed, and that which was hindering was hindering in order that the man of sin not be revealed BEFORE HIS TIME.

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(2 Thessalonians 2:7 KJV)

The mystery of lawlessness was already working in Paul's day. This would have led to the imminent revealing of the man of sin, BUT something was hindering that so that the man of sin wasn't revealed too soon. The man of sin was to be revealed later on.

This hindrance would continue to hinder, until it was removed. "Taken out of the way" as the Bible states.

Until he be taken out of the way (heōs ek mesou genētai). Usual construction with heōs for the future (aorist middle subjunctive, genētai). Note absence of an as often in N.T. and the Koiné‚. Paul uses heōs only here and 1Co_4:5. When the obstacle is removed then the mystery of lawlessness will be revealed in plain outline. Robertson's Word Pictures

Will let, until he be taken out of the way - This will be an effectual check on these corruptions, preventing their full development, until it is removed, and then the man of sin will appear. The supposition which will best suit this language is, that there was then some civil restraint, preventing the development of existing corruptions, but that there would be a removal, or withdrawing of that restraint; and that then the tendency of the existing corruptions would be seen. It is evident, as Oldshausen remarks, that this resisting or restraining power must be something out of the church, and distinguished from the anti-Christian tendency itself; yon der Kirche und vom Antichristenthum. It is necessary, therefore, to understand this of the restraints of civil power. - Barnes' Notes

[Michael The Disciple]

The revelation of Jesus is what was being restrained?

Read chapter one and it becomes clear.

2 Thess 1:7

7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Jesus will be REVEALED from Heaven! But not until the falling away and the man of sin occurs.

And NOW you know what witholds that HE might be REVEALED in his time.

Get it? NOW YOU KNOW.....

[Sean]

The man of sin gets revealed at one time.

The son of man/God(Jesus) is revealed at another time.

The word ' reveal" is used in multiple ways in the Bible.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Read chapter one and it becomes clear.

2 Thess 1:7

7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Jesus will be REVEALED from Heaven! But not until the falling away and the man of sin occurs.

And NOW you know what witholds that HE might be REVEALED in his time.

Get it? NOW YOU KNOW.....

There are two things that were to be revealed - Jesus Christ, and the man of sin. Which is being spoken of in verse 6 of chapter 2? The immediate context requires it to be the man of sin.

Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
(2 Thessalonians 2:5-8 KJV)

The hindrance is hindering until he (the restrainer) is taken out of the way, and THEN the lawless one or man of sin will be revealed.

This shows that verse 6 is speaking of the man of sin being revealed by the removal of the restraining power.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Read chapter one and it becomes clear.

2 Thess 1:7

7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

Jesus will be REVEALED from Heaven! But not until the falling away and the man of sin occurs.

And NOW you know what witholds that HE might be REVEALED in his time.

Get it? NOW YOU KNOW.....

When people understand who Jesus is, then people will get a revelation of the man of sin? Is that what you are saying?

[Michael The Disciple]

2 Thess 2:7

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

This verse puzzles many as it once did me. Yet what if this is a translation problem? What if its not talking about anything being taken away?

My New King James Interlinear renders it like this on page 718.
Quote:

For mystery already is at work only until from the midst he comes.

This would indicate the mystery of iniquity is at work until FROM THE MIDST (of the work of iniquity) he comes, speaking of the man of sin.

So rather than something being taken away something or someone is coming from the midst. So when he comes from the midst speaks of the coming from the midst of iniquity of the man of sin.

8-9

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

So when the man of sin comes from the midst of iniquity it is his revelation to the world. Paul says Jesus will destroy him with the brightness of HIS COMING.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

2 Thess 2:7

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

This verse puzzles many as it once did me. Yet what if this is a translation problem? What if its not talking about anything being taken away?

My New King James Interlinear renders it like this on page 718.
Quote:

For mystery already is at work only until from the midst he comes.

This would indicate the mystery of iniquity is at work until FROM THE MIDST (of the work of iniquity) he comes, speaking of the man of sin.

So rather than something being taken away something or someone is coming from the midst. So when he comes from the midst speaks of the coming from the midst of iniquity of the man of sin.

8-9

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

So when the man of sin comes from the midst of iniquity it is his revelation to the world. Paul says Jesus will destroy him with the brightness of HIS COMING.

Brother Michael, where did you get that translation? What interlinear of the KJV?

the man of sin comes from the middle of iniquity? This will be the man of sin's revelation to the world?

Please, I don't want to get you wrong. Please clarify, if I am understanding you.

[Michael The Disciple]

It is The New King James Greek English Interlinear Pg 718.

I will write the part Im talking about.

"For mystery already is at work of lawlessness only the {one} holding back {will continue} now until from the midst he comes.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

It is The New King James Greek English Interlinear Pg 718.

I will write the part Im talking about.

"For mystery already is at work of lawlessness only the {one} holding back {will continue} now until from the midst he comes.

Brother Michael, what do you think the word 'comes" means in the above verse? Look at it again in your interliner.