Royal Tailor Band

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Timmy

The ones the pastor's wife used were plain, solid color flags on sticks, if I remember right. But check out this web site! Turns out there's a whole arsenal of these things, great for spiritual warfare, I kid you not!

http://www.stream-of-words.com/flags...flags_menu.htm

Okay, I thought you were talking about the US flag and the Christian flag that some churches have. I was thinking that would be weird during an altar call.

Spiritual warfare? hmmmmm

[CC1]

A couple of years ago I was at a mainstream UPC church when the Tupelo Children's Mansion group was visiting. A group of around 4 teenagers (two boys and two girls if memory serves me right) did "signing" to a powerful song. They were awesome but the reality was what they were doing was synchronized dancing from the waist up - LOL.

I kept thinking that I wish I could see what they could really do if allowed to use their bodies from the waist down. It was obvious they had tremendous dancing talent. Had to keep those legs and feet still though so they could say it wasn't dancing!!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by CC1

A couple of years ago I was at a mainstream UPC church when the Tupelo Children's Mansion group was visiting. A group of around 4 teenagers (two boys and two girls if memory serves me right) did "signing" to a powerful song. They were awesome but the reality was what they were doing was synchronized dancing from the waist up - LOL.

I kept thinking that I wish I could see what they could really do if allowed to use their bodies from the waist down. It was obvious they had tremendous dancing talent. Had to keep those legs and feet still though so they could say it wasn't dancing!!

Being Tupelo they they probably learned long ago that they had to walk a pretty tight line when out on tour. My daughter's group used their feet as they would turn around when one or two "signers" were doing a sort of "solo" thing. Then, while turned to one side they would sort of step in place in a low key fashion to the beat of the song.

They would also step around their individual space in a choreographed manner that was pleasing and symmetrical to the eye of the viewer. I guess this is what you do when you aren't allowed to do a full on "Glee" type of production.

This was pretty common in most "mainstream" UPC churches. The church where my daughter performed in these things is very much the "typical mainstream UPC church." They were even identified in Thomas Fudge's book as being part of the "conservative" branch. Whatever.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Being Tupelo they they probably learned long ago that they had to walk a pretty tight line when out on tour. My daughter's group used their feet as they would turn around when one or two "signers" were doing a sort of "solo" thing. Then, while turned to one side they would sort of step in place in a low key fashion to the beat of the song.

They would also step around their individual space in a choreographed manner that was pleasing and symmetrical to the eye of the viewer. I guess this is what you do when you aren't allowed to do a full on "Glee" type of production.

This was pretty common in most "mainstream" UPC churches. The church where my daughter performed in these things is very much the "typical mainstream UPC church." They were even identified in Thomas Fudge's book as being part of the "conservative" branch. Whatever.

Hate to hear your daughter is one of those carnal compromisers bringing the "world" into the church!













J/K!!!!!!!

[Dagwood]

Back in the days with the UC OP church, my wife was part of the "sign team." But it certainly wasn't just any ole sign language. There was about 6 or 8 ladies who signed. Songs like "Holy Thou Art God," "Worthy Is The Lamb," etc, all from IBC (I believe), Richard Smallwood's "Total Praise," Donnie McClurkin's "I Call You Holy" they signed for a number of services, even traveling to other churches. The atmosphere of worship that resulted was phenominal because they got into the worship with their signing, facial expressions, etc. It's something I definitely miss being blessed with and definitely something that was not choreographed. I'm not a fan of choreography, dowel rods, and anything else like that...

[houston]

IDK how/why signing is considered a ministry. I have yet to see any deaf people blessed by this ministry. What I have seen is entertainment followed by an emotional response by those that have full functioning ears. It's the UPC version of the ballet.

[Dagwood]

Originally Posted by houston

IDK how/why signing is considered a ministry. I have yet to see any deaf people blessed by this ministry. What I have seen is entertainment followed by an emotional response by those that have full functioning ears. It's the UPC version of the ballet.

Good point. Where we were going to church, it was never specifically stated who the targeted audience was. I don't recall ever seeing or knowing of a deaf person visit the church. If anything, it was a way to add a different taste to the worship for regulars/visitors.

But, I do have to wonder: if a deaf person walked into a serivce, was watching the interpretor, and God started moving, would the deaf person respond the same way as others in the congregation hearing the preaching/singing (prior to receving their healing)? Can the deaf respond by what they see since they can't hear? After all, those of us who can hear respond by what we hear and how loud we hear it...

(apologies for derailing from the original thread)

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Dagwood

Back in the days with the UC OP church, my wife was part of the "sign team." But it certainly wasn't just any ole sign language. There was about 6 or 8 ladies who signed. Songs like "Holy Thou Art God," "Worthy Is The Lamb," etc, all from IBC (I believe), Richard Smallwood's "Total Praise," Donnie McClurkin's "I Call You Holy" they signed for a number of services, even traveling to other churches. The atmosphere of worship that resulted was phenominal because they got into the worship with their signing, facial expressions, etc. It's something I definitely miss being blessed with and definitely something that was not choreographed. I'm not a fan of choreography, dowel rods, and anything else like that...

I'm glad that your wife was blessed to be a part of something that helped to lead others into worship and the presence of God. However, I would quibble with you a bit when you say it wasn't "choreographed."

I'm certain that the ladies practiced and that they even agreed upon which "sign" to use in cases where a there might be a couple of different ways to express something in American Sign language. Further, the fact that they were signing in the first place would serve as a kind of "filter" or even a "choreography" of their movements.

Was the audience deaf? Did the majority of people in the audiences even understand the ASL that they were observing? If not, then the whole thing really does fall into the category of a "performance," and a "choreographed" performance at that.

I'm not saying this to knock you down. As I've said before, I have enjoyed these types of performances in church. I'm just keen to observe the similarities between the things that OP people do and what "The World" or "Charismatics" do in their services. When you get right down to it, there is usually very little difference in what's going in the two realms.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Dagwood

Good point. Where we were going to church, it was never specifically stated who the targeted audience was. I don't recall ever seeing or knowing of a deaf person visit the church. If anything, it was a way to add a different taste to the worship for regulars/visitors.

But, I do have to wonder: if a deaf person walked into a serivce, was watching the interpretor, and God started moving, would the deaf person respond the same way as others in the congregation hearing the preaching/singing (prior to receving their healing)? Can the deaf respond by what they see since they can't hear? After all, those of us who can hear respond by what we hear and how loud we hear it...

(apologies for derailing from the original thread)

I guess you've already answered my questions (above).

Being hearing impaired myself and unable to make out much of what gets cranked through the typical UPC sound system, I can say that "Yes!" anyone who is sensitive or even just seeking a move of God will "hear" or "see" one when it happens.

As far as "getting their healing" - I have never known of any hearing impaired person being healed through a "deaf ministry" or a "signing performance." I know, I know, many will want to add some anecdotal tale about what their grandma said happened back "in the day" or some other third or fourth hand account. I should add... no one on AFF has ever responded to my many "skeptical" remarks about such things with actual proof.

I do believe in the miraculous. I don't believe that the healing of deaf ears has ever been the goal of any "Deaf Ministry" nor has this happened in any significant numbers.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I guess you've already answered my questions (above).

Being hearing impaired myself and unable to make out much of what gets cranked through the typical UPC sound system, I can say that "Yes!" anyone who is sensitive or even just seeking a move of God will "hear" or "see" one when it happens.

As far as "getting their healing" - I have never known of any hearing impaired person being healed through a "deaf ministry" or a "signing performance." I know, I know, many will want to add some anecdotal tale about what their grandma said happened back "in the day" or some other third or fourth hand account. I should add... no one on AFF has ever responded to my many "skeptical" remarks about such things with actual proof.

I do believe in the miraculous. I don't believe that the healing of deaf ears has ever been the goal of any "Deaf Ministry" nor has this happened in any significant numbers.

Pel, I didn't know you are hearing impaired (or if I knew I forgot). I will be sure and type louder!