Interesting Facts about US Consumption

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Rule number 1 of a socialist/environmentalist: Anyone who consumes more then ME is consuming too much and should be soaked to pay for the "poor" so I don't have to.

I don't think that's citizen's point, but it does explain a little of the defensiveness of this thread.

[Socialite]

What is apparent to me is the tendencies to have judgmental and spiteful attitudes against the poor is a repeat sin through the history of man.

[houston]

nice, sandie is offended by something Jesus rebuked in Revelation. lol lol

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Not true.

You're not informed on this topic even remotely if you are suggesting to me that unhealthy food cost less than healthy food.

The average poverty-line home has two workers as well -- which also means lack of time and energy for nutritious meals. Sure, choice is one of those things, but last I checked all the healthy food stores that don't have nasty corn syrup as their top ingredient are also the most posh and expensive of stores. And farmer's markets aren't any cheaper (though I frequent them and encourage them because the more of us that pay the extra money to make better choices, the cheaper the supplies will be).

Poor people have poor people food options. No grand conspiracy in that. Agreeing with that position doesn't mean we are going to raise your taxes or require you to sign-up as a political liberal.

Nope I was not comparing health food stores and fast food. I know I can't afford to buy groceries at health food stores, and I am nowhere near the poverty level.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

That's why I support many inner-city orgs that promote education (something we take for granted as non-poor people).

Who complained about $800/month? Link?

I can't tell you how many poor people there are, just out of pride, that refuse to go on welfare. The stigma is heavy, and even poor people have pride.

Everyone is different I guess. As someone who was born and raised in "poverty" and certainly would have qualified for food stamps and housing for a few years after being on my own and trying to establish a business, I saw the stigma as a healthy thing.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Everyone is different I guess. As someone who was born and raised in "poverty" and certainly would have qualified for food stamps and housing for a few years after being on my own and trying to establish a business, I saw the stigma as a healthy thing.

I can see why you'd say the stigma is healthy or good. However, I think it's a stigma created by judgmentalism, and Christians have the Lion's share here, unfortunately. If someone needs help, there should be no pride. Gracious giving and gracious receiving. Those who can't receive from others struggle with major heart issues as well. That's not to say all who choose not to go on welfare (like your example) have heart issues (to be clear)! But in general, those who have a hard time receiving from others get a misty-eyed back pat from us because they are "manly" or better somehow, really betray a symptom of fearing others (and what they think about them) and trying too hard to maintain a self-preserved reputation.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Not all poor people have complicated their poverty with booze and cigarettes. In fact, it's an unnecessary characterization of the poor.

I'm a supporter of orgs that help educate the poor on healthy choices, btw. Health is too far-off an idea to think about for many of them. Most definitely addictions contribute, and are causal to poverty as well. But they aren't the reason they are impoverished.

Socialite, most of the poor are poor, because of bad choices. Choices that they made themselves, but choices. Most, but not all. Some are there through no fault of their own. And believe me I have been there and been very poor, due to bad choices. I lived with bad choices. Thanks be to God that I started making good and right choices and it was amazing how much easier life became.
Let me say that I am only applying this to the poor in America, because that is my personal experience. Things are much different outside of this land.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

Socialite, most of the poor are poor, because of bad choices. Choices that they made themselves, but choices. Most, but not all. Some are there through no fault of their own. And believe me I have been there and been very poor, due to bad choices. I lived with bad choices. Thanks be to God that I started making good and right choices and it was amazing how much easier life became.
Let me say that I am only applying this to the poor in America, because that is my personal experience. Things are much different outside of this land.

Sorry, AEGSM, I can't even reading further than that statement.

Go read the Book of Isaiah, Obadiah, Micah, words of Jesus and then finally go study the poverty in your own city aside from anecdotal and talk radio input.

Our attitudes toward the poor are not unique to America. They've been a sinful curse for as long as mankind has lived.

A crack baby doesn't choose to be born in an oppressed ghetto. When other kids are picking out their colleges in advance, these are just trying to survive in their little bubble, and can hardly imagine any other world. Families can't control getting laid off from work. Daddies can't control horrible sickness and illness. Mommies can't control when daddy's die too early. The mentally ill don't choose to be so. The handicap. The maimed. People can't control and choose how they come in this world. I'm not an advocate of helplessness, but the opposite side is an attitude that seeks fault and liability when people aren't wealthy and prosperous.

Ironically (or maybe not), I find one's theology about salvation related closely to their view of the poor. Works-based knows best.

We aren't called to this form of charity. We are called to graciousness --- loving, caring for and helping those regardless if we deem they deserve it or not. After all, we didn't deserve grace either.

Don't mean to be snappy with you, just a passionate topic and your feelings are, IMO, unfortunately far too common in Christian circles.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Socialite

I can see why you'd say the stigma is healthy or good. However, I think it's a stigma created by judgmentalism, and Christians have the Lion's share here, unfortunately. If someone needs help, there should be no pride. Gracious giving and gracious receiving. Those who can't receive from others struggle with major heart issues as well. That's not to say all who choose not to go on welfare (like your example) have heart issues (to be clear)! But in general, those who have a hard time receiving from others get a misty-eyed back pat from us because they are "manly" or better somehow, really betray a symptom of fearing others (and what they think about them) and trying too hard to maintain a self-preserved reputation.

This is all subjective though...

Speaking of myself when I was poor... I would much rather dig ditches at minimum wage than take money for free. However, if I had exhausted all resources, I would take money to feed my family. I had never reached that point. Many, (and of course not all) are simply not willing to work hard for peanuts, but would rather seek "entitlements". I am just saying thats was not me. If I was disabled or lost my limbs I would view it differently I am sure. Had I had a sense of entitlement concerning my bills I may still be justifying food stamps. I don't know, but I do think my mindset in part assisted my assent out of poverty.

If you think I am cold or don't give to the poor you would be wrong. I pay thousands of dollars into these government programs and yet multiple times I have given hundreds of dollars to families I know were hurting. If they showed a sense of entitlement I am not so sure I would give though.

[aegsm76]

Notice, I did not say their bad choices.
Also, I can get very snappy about this too, because I was there.
Sort of like a reformed smoker.
Have you been poor, really poor?
If not, then you probably cannot relate to what I am saying.
I've been there, I've seen it first hand and lived it.
Have you?
Don't try to brush me off as my feeling are common in Christian circles, that's just a diversion from the real issue.
I am going to bow out of this discussion for a while, because my old carmal man is coming to much to the front!!!
Please excuse me if this comes across as intolerant or mean-spirited. Believe me, that is not the way I intend it.
I just believe that my version is about 90% correct!
God Bless!