Perhaps we are seeing different parts of the elephant. But I have a hard time understanding others who insist that there are hard and fast distinctive roles that men and women; husbands and wives play.
So called "feminine" qualities are listed as fruits of the Spirit not feminine qualities only. And men like Moses were described as meek. Wisdom is spoken of in feminine terms.
I cannot imagine a husband who loves his wife as his own flesh; forcing something that is detestible (to his wife) upon her. A marriage where the husband loves his wife as his own flesh; then by its very nature; is mostly a dance of mutual submission.
So then an enduring marriage is much more about communication, cooperation and consideration than hard and fast roles. Both the husband and wife; over the course of a lifetime marriage will find themselves making sacrafices for the sake of their spouse.
As a whole; spouses balance each others weaknesses and their marriages thrive because of it. Consequently, it is a mistake to think or insist that all men and women should fit a particular cookie cutter mold.
Individuals are unique. And God calls the husband to love his wife (her uniqueness) as himself and the wife to reverence her husband. And that is real life in marriages that make it to the 50 year mark.
Perhaps we are seeing different parts of the elephant. But I have a hard time understanding others who insist that there are hard and fast distinctive roles that men and women; husbands and wives play.
So called "feminine" qualities are listed as fruits of the Spirit not feminine qualities only. And men like Moses were described as meek. Wisdom is spoken of in feminine terms.
I cannot imagine a husband who loves his wife as his own flesh; forcing something that is detestible (to his wife) upon her. A marriage where the husband loves his wife as his own flesh; then by its very nature; is mostly a dance of mutual submission.
So then an enduring marriage is much more about communication, cooperation and consideration than hard and fast roles. Both the husband and wife; over the course of a lifetime marriage will find themselves making sacrafices for the sake of their spouse.
As a whole; spouses balance each others weaknesses and their marriages thrive because of it. Consequently, it is a mistake to think or insist that all men and women should fit a particular cookie cutter mold.
Individuals are unique. And God calls the husband to love his wife (her uniqueness) as himself and the wife to reverence her husband. And that is real life in marriages that make it to the 50 year mark.
I agree... mostly, It is still very difficult for men to breastfeed babies though.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Perhaps we are seeing different parts of the elephant. But I have a hard time understanding others who insist that there are hard and fast distinctive roles that men and women; husbands and wives play.
So called "feminine" qualities are listed as fruits of the Spirit not feminine qualities only. And men like Moses were described as meek. Wisdom is spoken of in feminine terms.
I cannot imagine a husband who loves his wife as his own flesh; forcing something that is detestible (to his wife) upon her. A marriage where the husband loves his wife as his own flesh; then by its very nature; is mostly a dance of mutual submission.
So then an enduring marriage is much more about communication, cooperation and consideration than hard and fast roles. Both the husband and wife; over the course of a lifetime marriage will find themselves making sacrafices for the sake of their spouse.
As a whole; spouses balance each others weaknesses and their marriages thrive because of it. Consequently, it is a mistake to think or insist that all men and women should fit a particular cookie cutter mold.
Individuals are unique. And God calls the husband to love his wife (her uniqueness) as himself and the wife to reverence her husband. And that is real life in marriages that make it to the 50 year mark.
You should get a preaching license......LOL!
Great post!
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
Perhaps we are seeing different parts of the elephant. But I have a hard time understanding others who insist that there are hard and fast distinctive roles that men and women; husbands and wives play.
So called "feminine" qualities are listed as fruits of the Spirit not feminine qualities only. And men like Moses were described as meek. Wisdom is spoken of in feminine terms.
I cannot imagine a husband who loves his wife as his own flesh; forcing something that is detestible (to his wife) upon her. A marriage where the husband loves his wife as his own flesh; then by its very nature; is mostly a dance of mutual submission.
So then an enduring marriage is much more about communication, cooperation and consideration than hard and fast roles. Both the husband and wife; over the course of a lifetime marriage will find themselves making sacrafices for the sake of their spouse.
As a whole; spouses balance each others weaknesses and their marriages thrive because of it. Consequently, it is a mistake to think or insist that all men and women should fit a particular cookie cutter mold.
Individuals are unique. And God calls the husband to love his wife (her uniqueness) as himself and the wife to reverence her husband. And that is real life in marriages that make it to the 50 year mark.
This is a load of hogwash, Newman and you know it. You are advocating blurring the lines of distinction even further. I believe you are advocating dominance over males - not equality with them.
I am very disappointed with some of your feigned ignorance on this thread. I find it hard to believe that someone with your intelligence had such a hard time understanding what I originally meant and later clarified. I find it unbelievable that you have never seen a domineering woman in the church or in your life.
I do agree that men are not to "rule" their wives as if they are some sort of lowly servant. I believe he should treat her as a lady, and with the utmost respect. But she is not equal in authority in the home or with God.
Hello? Just because you know of what you speak, doesn't mean I do unless you mean to suggest that women everywhere usurp authority and/or hold men in contempt. I have never seen it in church (that I am aware of). Sorry to burst your bubble.
I have two observations after having read this thread.
1. It is obvious to me that some specific incidents and persons have you upset and concerned about the subject of this thread.
2. After reading the thread I can't help but think that your real concern is not really what you stated in the opening of the thread. You presented the issue that concerns you as one of "seperation" when in fact it seems to me it is one of a spiritual nature, not physical dress.
I agree with ILG's posts where she pointed out that the problems you descirbed with wome have nothing to do with how long their hair is or how they dress (as long as it is modest). You yourself pretty much bear that out in later posts as you said you did not lose the three families over standards as you don't harp on them.
I have seen Pentecostal women with hair down to their butt and not a stitch of makeup on who had domineering personalities and treated their husband like a dog. I have also seen women with makeup on, slacks, and jewelry do the same.
So unless you are talking about a woman dressing in black leather with a whip I don't think the dress code is a factor.
I am not "upset" in an angry way. I am more concerned than upset.
I believe there is some merit to your observations, although I would state that when the lines of separation are blurred it often stems from a spritual problem.
Usually someone is trying to fill a role that is not their's to fill.
I think what you are facing as a pastor is pervasive in our society because of feminism, the low status our society gives to stay at home moms and wives, etc.
Compounding that is the number of women who either have to work outsie the home or think they do (to maintain a higher standard of living). When women have to deal with men as either equals or subordinates on the job 40 hours a week it can affect their relationships with men in all aspects of their life.
Add to that the great number of single mother in our society today who are having to do it all themselves and you have yet another recipe for disaster when it comes to deferring to men or acknowledging the biblical roles given to each gender.
This is a load of hogwash, Newman and you know it. You are advocating blurring the lines of distinction even further. I believe you are advocating dominance over males - not equality with them.
I am very disappointed with some of your feigned ignorance on this thread. I find it hard to believe that someone with your intelligence had such a hard time understanding what I originally meant and later clarified. I find it unbelievable that you have never seen a domineering woman in the church or in your life.
I do agree that men are not to "rule" their wives as if they are some sort of lowly servant. I believe he should treat her as a lady, and with the utmost respect. But she is not equal in authority in the home or with God.
1. I NEVER advocated dominance over males. Why would you even assert that?
2. If you knew my family and those I associate with; you would not be so hasty to insist that I could relate to your posts. Furthermore; large churches don't get to be large churches without alot of submission going on.
3. You do not believe a wife has equal authority with God? Why do you think God bothered to send an angel to Mary and not just Joseph? Why does God even bother to fill wives with the Holy Ghost? Is most of Scripture not applicable to women?
4. If you run in to one dominating woman in your church that might be tough luck; but when you run into many (especially if unrelated); I have to wonder what kind of attitude did the women pick up on that caused things to turn ugly? Just a thought.
1. I NEVER advocated dominance over males. Why would you even assert that?
2. If you knew my family and those I associate with; you would not be so hasty to insist that I could relate to your posts. Furthermore; large churches don't get to be large churches without alot of submission going on.
3. You do not believe a wife has equal authority with God? Why do you think God bothered to send an angel to Mary and not just Joseph? Why does God even bother to fill wives with the Holy Ghost? Is most of Scripture that speaks of a relationship with God not applicable to women?
4. If you run in to one dominating woman in your church that might be tough luck; but when you run into many (especially if unrelated); I have to wonder what kind of attitude did the women pick up on that caused things to turn ugly? Just a thought.
That was the response I was looking for. It's my fault, right? I mean, after, all, it's always the pastor's fault. Who said anything about equal authority with God? I was speaking about authority in the home.
BTW, you are going to need to ignore a lot of NT scripture to arrive at some of the conclusions you have on this thread.
That was the response I was looking for. It's my fault, right? I mean, after, all, it's always the pastor's fault. Who said anything about equal authority with God? I was speaking about authority in the home.
BTW, you are going to need to ignore a lot of NT scripture to arrive at some of the conclusions you have on this thread.
Did you not write "But she is not equal in authority in the home or with God."
I believe there is much more support for my position of mutual submission based on Scripture than what you are advocating. I can think of no tougher role than loving one's wife as one's own flesh.
Once again, you are barking up the wrong tree. You are going to have to look long and hard if you want to pin preacher bashing on me.
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