Command or commandments?

[sandie]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Ya Some one is getting it

If anything these are the commandments of God that we are to obey!!! Where tell me is the list of holiness standards given anywhere in the word, that has been preached as holiness?

Holiness is not the outside.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

vain babblings (fruitless discutions) in other words things that have no bearing on our relationship to God.

Too many have become tomb painters instead of having a relationship with God. This is the same as being under the law.

I recently had a lovely woman who adhered to the dress code tell me that you can tell there's holiness on the inside when it shows on the outside.
In hindsight I should have asked her where that Scripture was located.

[sandie]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

John chapter 3 being the base of where many start when preaching salvation of repentanc, baptism and infilment with the spirit of the HG, (three step salvation) as I think is the term used on this forum. This based on the statement of being born of water and spirit, in John 3:5. The fact of the matter this interpretation of Jesus words do not follow the rest of the conversation. As at the end of this converstation with Nicodemus Jesus makes these statements.


Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

How does one line up saying being born of water is baptism as this puts words into Jesus mouth that he did not say, as this passaged refutes that idea.

When Israel were bitten by the serpent all they had to do to be saved was to look upon the serpent in faith.

With that thought, I beleive we are completely saved when we hear the good news and beleive in the cross by faith. It is then that our faith causes us to repent, then to contintue in the commandments as God leads us by his spirit.

I'm trying to understand your pov.
Here's the first part of John 3:

John 3 (New American Standard Bible)

John 3
The New Birth
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews;
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."

3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"

5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

9 said to Him, "How can these things be?"

10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

11 "Truly, truly, I say to you, speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

12 "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?


Why would Jesus even mention water and Spirit if it wasn't necessary?
Why did He tell Nicodemus unless we are be born of water (surely Jesus already knew we were born once naturally of water) and spirit we cannot see the Kindgom of God?
How is just believing being born again?

And I can't see how the rest of the conversation negates the first part, if that's what you are saying.

I could better see your pov if water baptism was never mentioned again in Scripture.

I'm no bible scholar, I don't know Hebrew or Greek or anything else, all I know to do is take the Word at face value and studying it out the best I know how.

Thanks for listening.

[acerrak]

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

notice the Big S in the first Spirit, Gods Spirit and the second s is lower case which is your spirit.

God uses His Spirit to change your spirit, or your outlook on life
just some food for thought

and john 3 refers back to a passage some wer ein ezekial were God stated he would sprinkle water on israel and cleanse them of there sins, and because of this we have sprinkling today.


Edit

sandie dont be afraid to do a little study in greek because God initialy wrote it in greek and there is some real good studies and eye openers in the greek, excpecially when it comes to the word Love, or witnesses or calling on.

Im not a greek freak but what little i have looked into it is even more for your benifit

[sandie]

Originally Posted by acerrak

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

notice the Big S in the first Spirit, Gods Spirit and the second s is lower case which is your spirit.

God uses His Spirit to change your spirit, or your outlook on life
just some food for thought

and john 3 refers back to a passage some wer ein ezekial were God stated he would sprinkle water on israel and cleanse them of there sins, and because of this we have sprinkling today.

Edit
sandie dont be afraid to do a little study in greek because God initialy wrote it in greek and there is some real good studies and eye openers in the greek, excpecially when it comes to the word Love, or witnesses or calling on.

Im not a greek freak but what little i have looked into it is even more for your benifit

Thanks for your input, Acerrak.
The idea of doing a little study in Greek feels intimidating, thanks again.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by sandie

I'm trying to understand your pov.
Here's the first part of John 3:

John 3 (New American Standard Bible)

John 3
The New Birth
1 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews;
2 this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him."

3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4 Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"

5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'

8 "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

9 said to Him, "How can these things be?"

10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

11 "Truly, truly, I say to you, speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

12 "If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?


Why would Jesus even mention water and Spirit if it wasn't necessary?
Why did He tell Nicodemus unless we are be born of water (surely Jesus already knew we were born once naturally of water) and spirit we cannot see the Kindgom of God?
How is just believing being born again?

And I can't see how the rest of the conversation negates the first part, if that's what you are saying.

I could better see your pov if water baptism was never mentioned again in Scripture.

I'm no bible scholar, I don't know Hebrew or Greek or anything else, all I know to do is take the Word at face value and studying it out the best I know how.

Thanks for listening.

Simple, if the water in verse 5 meant baptism, and baptism is an action that one must do elsewhere, it is another step any way you look at it.

When Jesus used the serpent in the wildreness he brings it right back to one step. Look, believe, be saved. I know the word step is not a good word but I think you get my point.

Here is a thought that just entered my head, do you think there were any that were bitten in Moses day that look upon the serpent that were not saved? They died.

[Godsdrummer]

Just something else to add a log to the fire:

I stated not long ago that we need to understand that the bible is not a book of rules to salvation, as much as it is a guide book that is given to leaded us to relationship with our God. It is further a lesson book of what can happen when we turn from God.

Why have we been conditioned to see things from the point of view that we have? Why do we think in terms of saved or not saved? Instead of in relationship with God or not in relationship with God.

Is it because of our own pride and ego? If we change our view than we cannot be right and others wrong. When we preach salvation and the plan of salvation then we can argue over who has the right plan of salvation.

But if we lead others to relationship with God we loose the control we have because we can no longer dictate our man made laws onto others, because relationship with God is not dictated by the obediance to the rules man has set forth, but is reliant on an individuals faith in the gospel. That Christ came to make the way to relationship with God.

We seem to have a problem with penance, we feel we cannot be pleasing to God if we don't pay some form of penance. We cannot beleive God would forgive us and bring us back into relationship with him just by believing in the work Christ did on the cross. We need to learn the lesson of LOVE, that God so love the world.... that whosoever beleiveth in him should not perish....
The lesson we need to learn is God does not want us to pay him back with out works of penance, as much as he wants us to pay his love forward to our fellow man. And in doing this it will return to him.

[sandie]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

Simple, if the water in verse 5 meant baptism, and baptism is an action that one must do elsewhere, it is another step any way you look at it.

When Jesus used the serpent in the wildreness he brings it right back to one step. Look, believe, be saved. I know the word step is not a good word but I think you get my point.

Here is a thought that just entered my head, do you think there were any that were bitten in Moses day that look upon the serpent that were not saved? They died.

But, that was the OT and yes we have to believe first and believe that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.
However, that doesn't seem to negate Acts 2:38 and the other verses in Acts that speak of baptism and further into the epistles.

But, thanks for taking the time to respond.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by sandie

But, that was the OT and yes we have to believe first and believe that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.
However, that doesn't seem to negate Acts 2:38 and the other verses in Acts that speak of baptism and further into the epistles.

But, thanks for taking the time to respond.

No one is saying we are not to be baptized, just that is not part of the plan of salvation per sae. What everyone does not understand about baptism is the cerimony that it implied in OT and NT times. Have you ever ask yourself where baptism originated and what it ment. John was not the first to come and baptize, it had been around for a while way before John. When you study this out you will began to understand the significance and meaning of baptism. It will bring to light a whole new meaning to baptism.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Rev.Richmond

The spirit is subject unto the prophet.

The spirit?

I Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Saying the "spirit is subject to the prophet" is vastly different from saying "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets."


To the subject of the thread:

"Commandments" is plural, and IMO it refers to the basic ten, which all hang on two.

If you keep the two commandments Jesus gave, you can't help but fulfill the other ten, and pretty much every other important commandment given in scripture.

[Rev.Richmond]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

The spirit?

I Corinthians 14:32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

Saying the "spirit is subject to the prophet" is vastly different from saying "the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets."

Good evening MissB,
I suppose you are correct......if your prophets are in the flesh. But if they are in The Spirit, then The Spirit is subject unto the prophet(s) in whome it is operating through. Paul was attempting to set some order and give understanding to those who seemed to be causing confusion due to their ignorance and disorderly conduct, if you will, though it was with good intentions. Concisley concluded in this verse: (12) Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. I think that he was try to let them know that basically "though you really feel it, consider what you're about to do, try your best to edify and do all things decently and in order."