Perspectives Sounding Social Network Alarms

[Hoovie]

Well now we did it!! "Pentehostile" Google search now puts this thread at #1.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by BHILL

I think PM's right to say what he did in the Perspective. Most of the conservative posters no longer post here because of that reason. Anyone that is a con and stands up for what they believe is ridiculed & made fun of.
And I don't consider PM irrevelant & losing touch with reality. He has an incredible amount of influence with young minsters via the Bible school.And is loved & respected by everyone who knows him and has worked with him.
It's easy to sit on a computer and make fun of everyone you disagree with or who are more conservative than you are. While the ones your ridiculing don't have time to post all the time because they're pastoring,teaching,etc.

Thank you for posting this.

It should be said that "some" on AFF feel the way you describe, but by no means all or most. I have not and do not belittle or ridicule those who are conservative. Our family is just that. Conservatives are welcome here.

Concerning "doctrine" AFF contends for the spirit of the merger, even if it is not so popular today.

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by BHILL

I think PM's right to say what he did in the Perspective. Most of the conservative posters no longer post here because of that reason. Anyone that is a con and stands up for what they believe is ridiculed & made fun of.
And I don't consider PM irrevelant & losing touch with reality. He has an incredible amount of influence with young minsters via the Bible school.And is loved & respected by everyone who knows him and has worked with him.
It's easy to sit on a computer and make fun of everyone you disagree with or who are more conservative than you are. While the ones your ridiculing don't have time to post all the time because they're pastoring,teaching,etc.

There are many active ministers on here who are not "conservative" in the context of the UPCI.

Also there are many lurkers who view this forum and don't get into the mix.

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Well now we did it!! "Pentehostile" Google search now puts this thread at #1.

This forum gets high google rankings for nearly anything to do with Pentecostalism.

This site is #319,908 in the world with Alexia... which is amazing if you consider how much of a niche forum this place is.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/aposto...endsforum.com#

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by DAII

One thing is to read .... the other is to participate. There is a tacit approval of the platform in general when one signs up and becomes a member .... even if one does not agree 100% ....

It was that very fact that eventually forced the Doug White's of the world to have to "graciously" exit.

No one "forced" DW to exit. I don't think there is anything in the membership obligations that prohibits even ultraconservatives from participating here.

I do understand there are some that have a very low tolerance for diversity, but in all fairness that exists on the right and the left.

[Sam]

OK, here it is, hope there are not too many typos in it.
I tried to scan it first but the results were unreadable.


From the Publisher
Paul D. Mooney

Migration

“If one doubts that there exists growing anti-holiness, anti-doctrine, and anti-Bible rhetoric, please listen more carefully. Social network pages are filled with self-loathing Pentecostal young people and self-anointed, self-defined cool preachers, who will mock those who attempt to call attention to blurring lines between righteousness and worldliness.”

“That, to the height of this great argument, I may assert Eternal Providence, and justify the ways of God to men” --John Milton

Through his polemic poetry that addressed the struggle between good and evil, John Milton was joining the great battle in old England to keep the church pure and to overcome the corruptive influence and regicide of King Charles I. Milton chose to align with the Puritans, who were Bible readers and as such advocated obedience to the Bible’s call to righteousness. The Church of England, to which most of them belonged, hated them. The term Puritans was a derisive term within the church used to belittle those who felt that the political power wielded by the church was a source of corruption.

This, compounded with other issues, led to the English civil wars and the rise of Oliver Cromwell. Cromwell was sympathetic to the Puritans and advocated for the death of King Charles I. He eventually signed Charles’ death warrant, having himself become a virtual dictator. During those controversies, John Milton did not remain on the sidelines. he wrote pamphlets and articles that were widely distributed. However, none were as memorable as “Paradise Lost” and “Paradise Regained.” These poetic works were, as Milton described, intended to “assert Eternal Providence, and justify the ways of God to men.”

In the end, the struggle led to the great migration of Puritans, especially the separatists who wanted to be completely autonomous from the Church of England. They spread throughout Europe, into Holland and then, as we Americans know, they came to the New World, formed the Massachusetts Bay colony and founded the first American college, Harvard University.

The point of all this abbreviated history (forgive the oversimplification) is to illustrate a current similar migration. There seems to be a developing migration of holiness people away from the churches they built, away from the mother churches they founded, and away from the mission fields they gave their youth and health to establish. This migration may not have reached the tipping point at the moment, but in a short time it will: and the outcome will define the Apostolic Movement and determine its destiny. The issue must not be overlooked,and no preacher or congregation should remain on the sidelines.

Before every revolution there is pre-revolution rhetoric: a stirring of the pot, so to speak. Politicians call it “sending up a weather kite or weather balloon.” It’s rhetoric that tests reaction. As a boy I collected hornet’s nests around our small Indiana farm, but I never touched one casually. I always chucked small rocks at it or hit it gently with a long pole, to determine if any hornets were paying attention. Obviously, I wanted to collect empty hornet’s nests. The tapping of the nests has been going on for some time now. It began first among Christianity as a whole with the disputation and dilution of fundamental doctrines. Now as Pentecostals we face similar attack. Certain voices here and there propel small subtle, and cleverly targeted rocks at the issues of holiness, separation from the world and essentiality as it pertains to baptism and speaking in tongues. --all to see if there is any stir or buzz about it. It is my hope that they are miscalculating, and they will not find a nest of dead hornets.

If one doubts that there exists growing anti-holiness, anti doctrine, and anti-Bible rhetoric, please listen more carefully. Social network pages are filled with self-loathing Pentecostal young people and self-anointed, self-defined cool preachers, who will mock those who attempt to call attention to blurring lines between righteousness and worldliness. They test the nests to see if they can gather like minded followers living out selfish lusts. Greedily they make disciples unto themselves, appealing to a heightened spirit of carnality, sadly even among some longtime church folks. They make fun of holiness, inventing new epithets such as “holy hags,” “bun ladies” and “Patty Pentecostals.” One popular charismatic preacher recently referred to people who practice modesty in dress and who avoid extreme worldly styles as “ugly worshipers” and “pentehostile.”

I don't believe all the saints are dead or that all true Bible believers have fled the scene. In fact, the Pentecostal movement and the number of God-fearing people are growing. One can scarcely count the scope of the revival in the southern hemisphere. However, my concern at this moment are the dead churches here in North America, a nation where in the past century dedicated and Godly men and women have laid an astounding foundation of righteousness. As elders and guardians of this precious faith we must take this advantage seriously and protect it; to not only mentor those who come behind, but to monitor those who inherit this treasured foundation. If we fail, we risk forfeiting 100 years of digging, praying, preaching, and building to those who have no intention of maintaining the faith.

We need modern John Miltons who will “justify the ways of God to men.” This means they must insist that the Bible be obeyed. Disobedience was why “paradise was lost.” This was the great battle that Milton and others conducted in an epic struggle to emphasize the word of God as a book to be obeyed.

Obedience is at the core of everything this generation has inherited. The church buildings, the generations of believers, the organizations and ministries were all birthed in surrender of self and denial of ego in exchange for a walk of faith through obedience. Yet, in glib response to God’s blessings on these sacrifices the thankless and self-assured have become playful toward worldly pleasure and human philosophies that stymied the moving of the Holy Ghost for centuries and will do so again.

I believe we are seeing a migration among Pentecostal believers as they search for a safe harbor in a time of great change. A good many of these souls actually believe in righteous living. They were taught holiness and they live it. They love it. They teach it to their children. They want to continue in the Way. Yet, a good many are being marginalized in their own home churches. Nevertheless, they seek to walk in light of true spiritual revelation as it pertains to doctrine and life styles; and therefore, like the Puritans of England, they are seeking a spiritual resting place. They are searching for a place where the values of holiness are not maligned, where separation from the world is respected, not mocked and where the search for Truth is considered Christian responsibility. They desire a place of sanctity where pulpits are protected against hype and false doctrines. Migration will have consequences and Apostolics must decide quickly if what we really desire is a fellowship with no standards of discipline,or no certitude of beliefs or measurements of right and wrong or if we are willing to contend for the faith of our fathers.

“What does it matter,” Milton argued, “what you believe or where you dwell if your ambition is to reign or to follow your own mind?” This is the great question. If our ambition is to rule, to have our own way, to think our own thoughts, to live as we please then why should we care what the Bible teaches? For, as Milton states, such ambition leads some to conclude that perhaps it is “better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.”

[Hoovie]

Thanks Sam, I really have not had the time to do this.

[BHILL]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

No one "forced" DW to exit. I don't think there is anything in the membership obligations that prohibits even ultraconservatives from participating here.

I do understand there are some that have a very low tolerance for diversity, but in all fairness that exists on the right and the left.

But it should bother the owners of this board that most of the really good UC posters like RRFord,Steve Epley,Doug White and others no longer post here. They had a high level of tolerance for other viewpoints, but just got tired of the ridicule.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by BHILL

But it should bother the owners of this board that most of the really good UC posters like RRFord,Steve Epley,Doug White and others no longer post here. They had a high level of tolerance for other viewpoints, but just got tired of the ridicule.

I am not an owner, but I suspect those you mentioned are welcome back here as are some of the more liberal ones like Felicity and her husband and others.

Also, several who left were known by their peers and were not fully anonymous on AFF. I know for a fact the ridicule some face for being brutally honest on a forum like this is not all from within but most definitely also from without.

Conservatives and liberals alike can suffer from peers when the are open and dialog with those not normally in their clique.

[NotforSale]

I receive the Perspective magazine and always read Bro Mooney’s articles.

I personally feel this about men who are privileged to have such a "Sounding Board".

First, his large following enables him to say things with great support. I know this may seem somewhat off base with certain people, but remove his following and his "Amen Corner" and he may find himself not being so forthcoming with his ideas. Let the bottom fall out of his "Country", seeing what he would say when no one is willing to back him up or support his philosophy.

Big Churches and the Pastor’s who pastor them, run the risk of putting God into their corner because of the Hype they’ve developed, or the Kingdom they’ve grown. They can claim that they have mentors or someone to challenge them if they falter, but ultimately they are King.

IMO, every King needs to lose his crown so they can understand every side of life and Faith. Judgment, ideas, understanding, and deep opinions all suffer under the intoxication of being followed by so many.

If you or I had a National Magazine, a well renowned Christian College, and thousands of followers, we could throw our weight around with ease, as the shouts of praise would overcome any opposition that might threaten the Kingdom.

This may be a hard pill to swallow for many, but History proves how corruption becomes shrouded by a Righteous plea, which is really nothing more than dumping fear onto people so the walls don’t come crumbling down. Men that hold this kind of caliber in our Faith are nervous. They have a lot to lose.

Articles such as these are one sided and unopposed. Why not give someone a chance to do a rebuttal, and print that on the inside cover of the first page. That won’t happen, and we must ask ourselves, why?