What do you think about this prayer?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I'm not going to criticize someone for being bold about their faith, even if it isn't politically correct or socially acceptable in today's society.

Nor will I criticize someone for being overwhelmed. Whether by the Holy Ghost or by their own nerves, who can say?

This is a case of over-zealousness, but not pure stupidity. I refuse to participate in shredding her prayer or over-analyzing her actions. We've all been guilty of doing the right thing at the wrong time, or making poor judgment calls. Oh--maybe that was just me--Sorry.

Am I the only person who has truly been pressed upon by God to say or do something, but forgot to temper it with His wisdom?

I expect zeal from young people. Sometimes it works out, and other times they end up looking silly. Either way, it's not the death knell--although it COULD be the death of this girl's walk with God if her well-intentioned ambition is slammed too hard by fellow Christians.

Do we only appreciate boldness if someone is able to walk away looking cool and suave? I'm not sure God would share that view. We need to be very careful about judging these things. Just because WE feel awkward or uncomfortable about something doesn't mean God does. And just because people in the audience felt awkward or uncomfortable doesn't mean God did.

Amen, great post MB.

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I am sure that it could happen. Not sure that it did, but with God all things are possible....



That is a good thought really. I mean I know at times God has given me a VERY clear word for people and I didn't give them and it was good thing cause I might have gotten smacked-and the word would have been right for them. Once I was walking our chuch and our back wall to the santuary is lined with windows so in the lobby you can see in the sanctuary. I saw the back of a ladies head while she was sitting and God spoke EXTREMELY clear and said tell her I know what she has been doing with that man and I will forgive her because I have a plan for her. Well no way was I going to tell any girl that, but I had no clue she was from behind. Turns out that it was a lady that used to go to our church and had been gone a long time. The music started and she stood up and was PREGNANT!!!!! Now had I told her what God told me I might have gotten smacked or something but that was a word that I told God to give to a women to tell her. I hope he did. I try to think that far ahead as to not do anything to point anyone away from God and try to point them toward Him.

Why do you think God gave you the word if He didn't want you to give it?
It sounds almost as though you are saying you have more wisdom than God for you to tell Him to give the message to someone else.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Have you ever been the one who had to bail "some of the brothers" out of jail because they were arrested for "just doing what Jesus told us to do?"

Ever try and get someone out of a psych ward after they were forcibly admitted for "just weeping over the sins of the city?"

It does get old after a while. And, you are left to wonder... no one was saved, no one was "warned of impending doom" or anything like that. Nothing came of it but everlasting shame and humiliation. Nothing at all.

Well, I did learn a few things. Some others did as well... I think. At least they don't do that kind of stuff any more.

Peter and Paul know all about that. Do you think they were wrong in what they were doing?

Originally Posted by notofworks

Neither good intentions nor sincerity give any of us a free pass to do things that can be eternally damaging to the cause of Christ. We have been made stewards of the gospel of Christ and it's a great responsibility.

This isn't necessarily a moratorium on this girl as an individual, but rather, an opportunity to discuss the strategies that some employee in an attempt to evangelize others. I don't think we should be hindered from the discussion by considering only her sincerity. Jesus described people who were very active in religious activities that wouldn't be recognized on "that day" so sincerity doesn't equivocate Godly approval.

We have a local "night spot" that includes restaurants and theaters. Sure enough, each Friday evening, a complete nut stands on a box with his bible harshly condemning sinners, yelling at those who will be "fornicating" later that evening. He's been taken to court, won his case, and meanwhile he has set back the cause of Christ another century or so.

What about the fellow who "preaches" outside Joel Osteen's church every Sunday, calling the Lakewood folks to "see the truth" as they exit? Is THAT ok? It also happens to Greg Laurie each time he speaks. Are these people ok? At what point are Christ Followers required to stop their antics and follow the biblical prescription for reaching our world by displaying the same love, peace, and grace that Jesus had? He did, after all, say, "As the Father has sent me, so I send you" and the things he sends us to do are NOT things that are useless attempts to sabotage the efforts of others, whether it be a graduation, movie, or church service.

I'm puzzled how you have determined he has set the cause of Christ back another century????

Can anyone tell me of a big revival that didn't begin with God moving in a different way? If things were being done "business as usual" do you think things would have changed?

I think MB nailed it when she asked us could it be our PRIDE that makes us uncomfortable with these types of demostrations?

My first thought was why was she chosen for this part? I would think she was "known" as a Christian. She was not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. It did appear to me that she had her prayer written down, and I "think" some schools require it to be reviewed. Did she stay on script? Who knows. But I for one will not judge her actions as being not of God.

If I recall correctly Jesus told His disciples to not critize what some men were doing for the cause of Christ.

Do we have people that get over zealous OR they are trying to make a name for themselves? Yes we do. Is the Spirit subject to the Prophet? Yes it is.

But the example of the Brownsville video, seemed to me to be very sincere, given at an appropriate place, encouraged by the pastor, and what she said was right on.

So I'm not sure what your complaint is with her. If it is the shaking, then you need to go back and read the history of the early movement that swept across America. There was a whole lot of shaking going on, and I'm not talking about Elvis.

[MawMaw]

So I'm not sure what your complaint is with her. If it is the shaking, then you need to go back and read the history of the early movement that swept across America. There was a whole lot of shaking going on, and I'm not talking about Elvis.

Tell it girl!

Thank ya, thank ya very much!

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Jeffrey, I believe the responsibility of this girl's actions lie at the door of "The system" more than the girl. Evangelism is HARD WORK and requires the investment of great time, tears, strategy, thought, preparation, and relationship.

The term "drive-by" has been overused, but much of our Christian culture employs the use of "drive-by evangelism". We "drive-by" and hit them with a bumper sticker about hell, a t-shirt about Jesus, knock on the door and hand them a flyer, or use public displays of "intercession" or preaching. It's much easier to organize a "crusade", bring in a hot Christian pop group, dress in cool jeans, and get people to come up and sign a card, than it is to honestly invest in the roller coaster ride of building an authentic relationship with an unchurched person. The crusade, bumper sticker, or t-shirt takes little time or longstanding effort. The relationship, that thing that puts you in the life of a person who struggles with faith, can be brutal and exhausting.

Barna tells us that somewhere close to 80% of people who are active Christians, came to faith as the result of a personal relationship they had with another Christian!! That's huge!!

If we really want to reach the world, we'll pay attention to the strategies of Paul who frequently referenced how we live in front of those who are outside the faith.

Evangelism is not an event, it's a lifestyle.

Well said.

Do you think the girl's motives were evangelism?

I actually preached on this subject before. Drive-by evangelism and punch-card faith (clocking in good deeds to beef up the spiritual bank account).

I'm not sure we know if this girl is the "cooky loon" that is a little "off" on campus. None of us really know her or the situation. She didn't sound particularly dim. With exception of the in-your-face, yet subtle prayer accompanied with shaking and collapsing that is

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Esther

So I'm not sure what your complaint is with her. If it is the shaking, then you need to go back and read the history of the early movement that swept across America. There was a whole lot of shaking going on, and I'm not talking about Elvis.

Yes, shaking and collapsing on stage in what looked like a "holy frenzy" in front of a graduation benediction was likely his complaint. She didn't launch a world revival and perhaps the forum for shaking and passing out could be different

There's so much we don't know about this situation: immediate context of any events that supported her words, her story, God's part (if any), etc... So much to know. What was her goal?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Esther

Can anyone tell me of a big revival that didn't begin with God moving in a different way? If things were being done "business as usual" do you think things would have changed?

Yes, I can. In Anderson, South Carolina, Perry Noble started a bible study ten years ago in his living room and to date, many thousands have come to Christ as a result of what he started in a town 25,000 people. Soon, the population of his church will exceed the population of his city.

In Charlotte, North Carolina, Steven Furtick, a 24-year-old, gathered about 20 of his friends who sold all they had, pooled their resources, and started a church. Three years later, thousands have been baptized and come to faith.

In South Barrington, Illinois, a 23-year-old kid, Bill Hybels, just out of college, went door-to-door selling tomatoes with his friends to gather enough money to rent Willow Creek Theatre so they could hold a church service. 34 years later, they have led tens of thousands to Christ.

In Alpharetta, Georgia, Andy Stanley, the son of Charles Stanley, renowned bible teacher and pastor, gathered six of his friends and believed their way of working with youth would work with adults. 15 years later, they've seen tens of thousands come to faith.

The time would fail me (Ooooo, that sounded like Hebrews 11) to tell of W.A Criswell in Texas, Rick Warren in Southern California, Erwin McManus in Los Angeles, Joel Osteen in Houston (although that church has a TON of transfers), John Burke in Austin, Texas (Timmy, you should go sometime), Rob Bell in Michigan....and the list goes on and on.

So yes, I can tell you of great revivals where these shenanigans don't take place.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Yes, shaking and collapsing on stage in what looked like a "holy frenzy" in front of a graduation benediction was likely his complaint. She didn't launch a world revival and perhaps the forum for shaking and passing out could be different

There's so much we don't know about this situation: immediate context of any events that supported her words, her story, God's part (if any), etc... So much to know. What was her goal?

I know this will sound offensive to some, but I'm not convinced that displays like we saw from this girl or the girl in the Brownsville revival, are EVER of God. There's no biblical precedent. And, it serves no purpose but to confuse, alienate, and disrupt.

[n david]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I know this will sound offensive to some, but I'm not convinced that displays like we saw from this girl or the girl in the Brownsville revival, are EVER of God. There's no biblical precedent. And, it serves no purpose but to confuse, alienate, and disrupt.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I know this will sound offensive to some, but I'm not convinced that displays like we saw from this girl or the girl in the Brownsville revival, are EVER of God. There's no biblical precedent. And, it serves no purpose but to confuse, alienate, and disrupt.

First, are we talking about her making bold statements like this in a prayer or the passing out antics?

Offensive? No.

Biblical precedent for "weirdness?" Plenty.

Elijah challenging the priests to call fire from heaven.
This reject Moses entering into Pharoah's court demanding all of Israel be free.
Elijah's confrontations and rebukes with Ahab.
Peter (and Paul's) stinging rebuke's to Jews about crucifying the Messiah
Telling someone to dip in a dirty river 7 times as a way of healing
Jesus spitting in dirt and putting in a blind guys eyes.
Jesus rebuking Pharisees and Saducees in Synagogue
Jesus giving mysterious replies to a head of state when on trial
Jesus asking people to eat his flesh and drink his blood, risking being misunderstood.

Precedent for someone getting up and passing out in tongues as a way to communicate God's message? NONE. If this is a new thing, perhaps it should stay consistent with, at least, prior teachings from our Church Fathers, including the Apostolic Fathers, chiefest of whose writings we have, Paul.

If you re-read my post, you'll see I was agreeing with you.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

First, are we talking about her making bold statements like this in a prayer or the passing out antics?

Offensive? No.

Biblical precedent for "weirdness?" Plenty.

Elijah challenging the priests to call fire from heaven.
This reject Moses entering into Pharoah's court demanding all of Israel be free.
Elijah's confrontations and rebukes with Ahab.
Peter (and Paul's) stinging rebuke's to Jews about crucifying the Messiah
Telling someone to dip in a dirty river 7 times as a way of healing
Jesus spitting in dirt and putting in a blind guys eyes.
Jesus rebuking Pharisees and Saducees in Synagogue
Jesus giving mysterious replies to a head of state when on trial
Jesus asking people to eat his flesh and drink his blood, risking being misunderstood.

Precedent for someone getting up and passing out in tongues as a way to communicate God's message? NONE. If this is a new thing, perhaps it should stay consistent with, at least, prior teachings from our Church Fathers, including the Apostolic Fathers, chiefest of whose writings we have, Paul.

If you re-read my post, you'll see I was agreeing with you.

Oh, I know you were. I just hadn't talked enough today and wanted to say a few more things!

Those things you listed above were all very bold. But I would see them as very different from what this girl did. For one thing, it didn't work, and everything in your list DID work.

But as far as biblical precedent, I was referring to her shaking (Brownsville girl, too), tremoring, and uncontrollable gyrations. I don't see that in scripture.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Oh, I know you were. I just hadn't talked enough today and wanted to say a few more things!

Those things you listed above were all very bold. But I would see them as very different from what this girl did. For one thing, it didn't work, and everything in your list DID work.

But as far as biblical precedent, I was referring to her shaking (Brownsville girl, too), tremoring, and uncontrollable gyrations. I don't see that in scripture.

Not everything the prophets and apostles did "worked." Often it landed them in prison or worse.

Let me tell you something--I avoid "testifying" because I usually hyperventilate and actually shake with nerves if I have to speak in public. Singing I can do--no nerves there. But ask me to SAY something? Lord, help--you may as well just go ahead and knock me to the floor. LOL!!!! It's getting better, but if I don't carefully get into the proper zone or relax, I can't breathe and talk at the same time.

I guess I could see how she could be overwhelmed with nerves and stage fright and collapse in a trembling heap on the floor. You don't need scripture to understand a very human reaction, for Pete's sake.

You are being way too hard on this girl, NoW. You're all about showing compassion to sinners; be just as kindhearted to your brothers and sisters in Christ. They are bound to mess up. What's crazy is, you seem more inclined to show mercy if a Christian falls into sin than you are over this situation. I think you need to rectify that situation.

The other video is a different matter, IMO, but it reflects badly on that church's leadership--not on the girl in the video. Weird things going on there, and we all agree on that.