No you don't and I don't think you want to. One more time, I said, "somewhat hypocritically."
I think I, pretty much, understood that. "Somewhat hypocritically." Got it. Roger that. You believe trinitarians who end their prayers with "In the name of Jesus" are "somewhat hypocritical." Your position is clear. Ridiculous, but clear.
Where does the bible say that baptism is a statement of faith about your beliefs on the Godhead? Where does the bible relate anything like this to baptism? When I read about baptism I read it described as "for the remission of sins" and as "symbolizing the death, burial, and resurrection of us with Jesus Christ". I read nothing about the act of baptism being related back to ones views on God...
You see what is strange is that God gives men good gifts like baptism and men turn those gifts into weapons to use against one another. They condemn each other by the good gifts which God gives. They use those gifts to further their own beliefs in hopes that others will conform to their image. So instead of blessings those gifts become curses. So I say that it would be better for not a word to be said over baptism than for it to be turned into something it was never about (a weapon in the Godhead debate).
You see what is strange is that God gives men good gifts like baptism and men turn those gifts into weapons to use against one another. They condemn each other by the good gifts which God gives. They use those gifts to further their own beliefs in hopes that others will conform to their image. So instead of blessings those gifts become curses.
Brilliant. Wow. This could apply to so many different areas of our faith. I'm going to save this. Great, great post.
I have never belonged...so my words are the words of an outsider...I HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN BY WRITING THIS BUT I FEEL WE NEED EACH OTHER MORE THAN EVER BEFORE.
I have read/heard and saw both good and bad....However my overall thoughts about the UPCI in general are:
1. They have done more to promote the gospel than any other Jesus Name group I know.
2. They have opened up many home missions churches throughout America more than any other JN group I know.
3. I stand in awe of their many missionaries all over the world...more than any other Jesus name group I know.
4. I honor their many programs for missions and can say UPCI missionaries are well taken care of...and that takes a load off the missionary.
5. I honor great men and women that have been and are associated with the UPCI.
6. I know there are some that are quite different in thinking than I am however I pray for them and hope if they know me they will pray for me.
Yes, I know there have been some that were "done wrong" but we are dealing with human factors and no one is perfect much less a big organization. Mistakes have been made and in the process some have been destroyed...however this is the results of all of us being human. That happens among the independents too...
I deeply appreciate the UPCI churches that open their doors to us along with any other group that opens their doors...I think we ought to love one another as much as possible. I am deeply aware there are people we cannot always be buddy buddy to but we can pray for them and wish them well.
I want to be friends with all those that want my friendship...I have no desire to murder anyone.
Often it is strange how people tell things that are not true...before taking sides with anyone we should learn the truth...we should go to the person...hearsay is cheap...truth is valuable…I even heard not long ago in so many words we were leaning toward trinity…lol…when I would say we have probably baptized more trinity people in Jesus name than any group in Brazil.
We believe what we believe but it has never been our intentions to hurt anyone.
So dear ones let us pray for all people but especially those of the household of faith not looking at what color card they hold…WE ALL NEED EACH OTHER.
Excellent post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
I'm confused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
Naaaa, I'm still confused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
Yeah, I'm definitely confused.
We get the picture. You're confused. There are mental health professionals that work with people who are confused every day. Need a referral? I'm sure there is someone here with connections who could fix you right up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother David
Okay, okay. Sister A, starts a thread to say something nice about a group that she doesn't even belong to. We can allow her to do that and use conventional terminology understood in a conventional manner within the AFF lexicon, can't we?
You would think that since this is an apostolic forum, that perhaps an apostolic organization might possibly be reflected occasionally in a positive light. I guess that is too much to ask of some people. It doesn't take much to figure out who "Troublemaker" is. He posts with the same style, regardless of how many times he attempts to change the user name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
My feelings are hurt. Sniffle. Here I am, all confused, and you're accusing me of trying to cause trouble. I don't understand. Now I'm even more confused.
Hopefully, my point in all this is fairly discernible.
The sniffle, whine post just proved it beyond the shadow of a doubt if there was any question as to who is posting from the name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfrog
Beyond a doubt... But is it really a point worth fighting about? I mean it's not like she claimed that the UPC has done more to spread the gospel than any other Christian group. You see my point?
No, it isn't worth fighting about. Troublemaker just wanted more attention today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
Now I'm really confused!!
See above comment regarding your state of confusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
Is there anything here worth fighting about? I'm either wondering why certain groups insinuate that only they value the name of Jesus, or I'm just trying to be a Troublemaker (you gotta love my avatar), or both.
What you are is a forum troll. People figure out who you are on one name, so you move to another and another and another. Eventually the owners on the forum will get tired of your game, and ban you for a year or something like they did that Daniel guy. You're more annoying than he ever was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
I'm a little dense.
What an understatement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
You have raised a valid point. I am heading, right now, over to www.baptistfriendsforum.com and I'm going to tell them off. Man, I'm really mad now!
Seriously, the term, "Full Gospel" has always been terribly irritating to me. "We're 'Full Gospel', you other poor schmucks are only half-gospel!"
I don't care for labels, in case you can't tell. They're terribly exclusionary and unfair.
There's a great name for your own little forum. Why don't you buy the domain name and make your own place so you can post about how confused you are and let your buddies tell you it's okay to be confused because they accept you just as you are.
I have a few labels I could stick on you, but it would get me banned.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Maybe Troublemaker is really someone else pretending to not know what Sister Alvear means...of course that would make him an Ultra Con because we all know only the Ultra Con's deceive others like that....right?
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear
He/she would have to be awful dumb not to know...for after all this is an Apostolic oneness site. All may not be oneness but all know what oneness is when we refer to it.
Ah now, let's not hurt his widdle feelings again. He'll sniffle and whine some more. He's just "so confused" We're supposed to feel sorry for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
C'mon guys. We (myself included) do so much UPC bashing here.
Why not allow someone who is familiar with missions work and with various Oneness Pentecostal organizations say something good about the UPC?
Be honest, there's lots of good people in the UPC and the UPC as an organization does lots of good stuff.
Now there's a brilliant idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
I have no problem chiming in with you. I've often said that I hate the system and love the people.
More proof of who Troublemaker really is, as if we needed more proof. Love the people, accept the people. I'm okay, you're okay, everyone can come to my church and hold leadership positions, Sound familiar anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
No, no, no, no.......that's WAY too simple and makes WAY too much sense. You obviously aren't very learned in the scriptures, or denominational politics, for that matter. You see, if we make a monstrous, huge flippin' deal out of nothing, then we can have a separate denomination and create more positions of power. You've gotta get with it, Snicker. There are deep, deep, deep, deep hidden truths in the bible and have only been unlocked by certain people. All the other poor suckers are going to hell. God desires to burn forever those idiots that couldn't figure out the Godhead.
You're making way too much sense and making sense isn't acceptable in religion.
More of the same
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear
Wonder why it seems to bother some people if we start a thread about someone's virtures? Had we always rather focus on shortcomings?
That's a good question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroubleMaker
I think I, pretty much, understood that. "Somewhat hypocritically." Got it. Roger that. You believe trinitarians who end their prayers with "In the name of Jesus" are "somewhat hypocritical." Your position is clear. Ridiculous, but clear.
What is ridiculous is that you continue to post on this forum. It's pretty clear to most of the members on this forum that you hate apostolic people, apostolic churches and organizations and everything that they stand for. Why are you even on this forum? All you do is to mock, ridicule and make fun of anything and everything you can come up.
Grow up.
Why don't you do like the rest of the disgruntled people who didn't like the apostolic friends forum content did and go create your own little playground. Then you can be king, have all the attention you want and run things the way you please. That might make you feel special and give you as much attention as you seem to desire. I'm sure you will have a few followers that would go post with you as they seem to get into your amen corner and follow you around in every thread you start your pathetic posts in.
My apology to Sister Alvear for my part in disrupting what would have been a really nice thread on AFF for a change. Some people just wouldn't let it be one.
We get the picture. You're confused. There are mental health professionals that work with people who are confused every day. Need a referral? I'm sure there is someone here with connections who could fix you right up.
You would think that since this is an apostolic forum, that perhaps an apostolic organization might possibly be reflected occasionally in a positive light. I guess that is too much to ask of some people. It doesn't take much to figure out who "Troublemaker" is. He posts with the same style, regardless of how many times he attempts to change the user name.
The sniffle, whine post just proved it beyond the shadow of a doubt if there was any question as to who is posting from the name.
No, it isn't worth fighting about. Troublemaker just wanted more attention today.
See above comment regarding your state of confusion.
What you are is a forum troll. People figure out who you are on one name, so you move to another and another and another. Eventually the owners on the forum will get tired of your game, and ban you for a year or something like they did that Daniel guy. You're more annoying than he ever was.
What an understatement.
There's a great name for your own little forum. Why don't you buy the domain name and make your own place so you can post about how confused you are and let your buddies tell you it's okay to be confused because they accept you just as you are.
I have a few labels I could stick on you, but it would get me banned.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!
Ah now, let's not hurt his widdle feelings again. He'll sniffle and whine some more. He's just "so confused" We're supposed to feel sorry for him.
Now there's a brilliant idea.
More proof of who Troublemaker really is, as if we needed more proof. Love the people, accept the people. I'm okay, you're okay, everyone can come to my church and hold leadership positions, Sound familiar anyone?
More of the same
That's a good question.
What is ridiculous is that you continue to post on this forum. It's pretty clear to most of the members on this forum that you hate apostolic people, apostolic churches and organizations and everything that they stand for. Why are you even on this forum? All you do is to mock, ridicule and make fun of anything and everything you can come up.
Grow up.
Why don't you do like the rest of the disgruntled people who didn't like the apostolic friends forum content did and go create your own little playground. Then you can be king, have all the attention you want and run things the way you please. That might make you feel special and give you as much attention as you seem to desire. I'm sure you will have a few followers that would go post with you as they seem to get into your amen corner and follow you around in every thread you start your pathetic posts in.
Great post! But do you like me or not? I can't quite tell. I'm confused.
Last edited by TroubleMaker; 02-09-2010 at 09:12 PM.
In many cases where trinitarians reject 'oneness' doctrine, it is because they think 'oneness' people don't accept Jesus as truly God.
True. That, or they think Oneness people are so sectarian that only they are saved.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
I agree! - don't no one go messin with Sister Alvear!
Right here in River City.
Trouble with a capital "T"
And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for pool!
Now, I know all you folks are the right kinda parents.
I'm gonna be perfectly frank.
Would ya like to know what kinda conversation goes
On while they're loafin' around that AFF Hall?
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Where does the bible say that baptism is a statement of faith about your beliefs on the Godhead? Where does the bible relate anything like this to baptism? ....
The Apostle Peter said that baptism is "not a literal cleansing" but is "the answer (response) of a good conscience toward God." In my opinion that means it isn't an actual cleansing or washing which means to me that it is symbolic. I believe that baptism washes away sin in the same way that the unleavened bread is the flesh of Jesus and the wine is His blood. In other words, it's just symbolic. We may talk about all those sins being left in the baptismal pool but that is a figure of speech. As far as being the response of a good conscience, to me that means that we are justified or saved or born again when we come to Jesus and all our sins are washed away and we have a clear conscience with God so we follow that up with water baptism.
Here are a couple of things Bro. Howard Goss, first General Superintendent of the UPC, said in an article titled “The Blood Covenant” which appeared in the June 1954 Pentecostal Herald, pages 6 and 10
... repentance brings the blood of Jesus to a sinner’s heart to wipe out and cleanse him from all sin, he should then be baptized in water as a confession of his faith in the atonement...
When a sinner fully repents and confesses before God, the blood of Jesus atones for his sins , and cleanses his heart from all sin, and when he is clean then only is he a fit subject for water baptism. After that comes the promise “…you shall receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost…” (Acts 2:38)
The blood and power of the Lord Jesus is the only source of regeneration or the New Birth. Water baptism alone has no power to remit sins, else we could baptize infants as do the Catholics. The Roman Catholic teaches regeneration by water baptism, but it is not according to the Word of God. A candidate for baptism in water should be baptized BECAUSE THE BLOOD has cleansed, remitted, forgiven his sins, and not in order to get them remitted, as WATER ALONE CANNOT WASH AWAY SINS. The old hymn goes:
What can wash away my sins,
Nothing but the Blood of Jesus.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Are you serious?? I said they baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit because the bible said to do so. I said that because it does. The scripture and verse is:
Book
Matthew
Chapter
Twenty-eight (28)
Verse
Nineteen (19)
Words Spoken By
Jesus
Maybe the disciples "done it wrong"? Nice.
You didn't answer the question. Show me one place in the bible anyone was ever baptized as you say. Come on TM, several places in scripture describe people being baptized. Show me one that was baptized using the titles.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
Is there anything here worth fighting about? I'm either wondering why certain groups insinuate that only they value the name of Jesus, or I'm just trying to be a Troublemaker (you gotta love my avatar), or both.
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