To me, it's simple. He can be both yet not both at the same time. But Jesus was NOT His own Father, however, He was God at the same time while being man as well.
There are some who will argue that since Jesus was God and Jesus died, therefore, God died. Not so.
If he is both God and man why is it he cant be his Father? And if HE as God is not his Father who is his Father?
13: And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13
He said he was still living in Heaven while he was standing on Earth.
Who was he in Heaven when he made that statement?
This seems to be a clear affirmation to the deity of Christ. He was and is God almighty.
Hedid however, have the added benifit, or perhaps added limitations, of being human. This cannot be said about the Father.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Just to throw a little more in the mix.....in the following, who is considered the underlined "HE" that they did not know, Jesus or only the Father?, or both?
1 Jn. 3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
(We know Jesus was in the world....and the world knew Him not -Jn.1:10, yet Jesus addressed the people a few times, saying they also didnt know the Father-Jn. 16:3.....)
Also, in reading Jn. 16, I found it interesting....Jesus said there would come a time when He would tell plainly of the Father..
#1 When did that time come, and what did He "tell plainly"?
And in the very next verse, Jesus says in that day, you will ask in my name.
#2 Why did Jesus go on to say in that day, you will ask in my name?
I feel its probably relative to the apostles answering Matt. 28:19, with Jesus name baptism thruout the book of Acts. And also possibly relative to the verse that was posted early-on, about "no one knows the Father, except the Son, and whosoever the Son reveals Him to.."
Jn. 16:25 “These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; but the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but I will tell you plainly about the Father. 26 In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I shall pray the Father for you
__________________ If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart...
Abraham Lincoln
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. - Eph. 4:29
Just to throw a little more in the mix.....in the following, who is considered the underlined "HE" that they did not know, Jesus or only the Father?, or both?
1 Jn. 3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
Thats it! When was it the world did not know the Father? Could it be when Yeshua was here on Earth?
Also consider this:
28: And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
29: If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him. 1 John 2:28-29
Do we abide in Jesus? Is he the one that will appear? Is he righteous?
If you answered yes to these questions take note who you have been born of in verse 29.
We are BORN OF JESUS!
If we are BORN OF HIM I take that as meaning he is the Father.
Could it be that Jesus being our Father is the VERY SAME FATHER as in the very next verse?
1 Jn. 3:1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
If we were BORN OF JESUS in the preceeding verse how could he not be the Father in this verse?
Also, as simple as it may seem, we must acknowledge that it is by revelation (from the Father), that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Matt. 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
I will say, I'm not convinced that Paul, or any other apostle, would be comfortable saying that Jesus is His own Father. I could however, picture Paul stating that the deity of the Son of God Jesus Christ, was God the Father.
(Eph. 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him)
__________________ If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart...
Abraham Lincoln
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. - Eph. 4:29
What shocking news! The "revelation" that Oneness believers have is NOT that Jesus is the Father! Unreal. What has become of the Oneness that believed Jesus was/is both the Father and the Son.
Here is a simple diagram that can help us understand the proper distiction and terms of Father and Son from Oneness scholar Jason Dulle. Notice, "divine nature" and "Father" are not exactly synonymous terms - even though they both do reference God Himself.
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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