Any willing to answer my question?

[Sister Alvear]

I have a pastor and respect him deeply...up to this point I have never found it difficult to obey him and be submitted to him. We ALL need someone to go to, to look up to...someone to share our problems with, etc...

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

1Corith you were never under submission to him anyway so it does not matter if he dies or not...

You don't have a clue to what I'm talking about. Thanks anyway for your input.

[KWSS1976]

Yea I go to a apostolic chuch 1corith I know what your talking about... The preacher says jump.... you say how high.....

[Sister Alvear]

hope he does not say real high for I cannot do it!

[Sister Alvear]

I think the trouble is we have elders against elders....then who do we believe????

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

hope he does not say real high for I cannot do it!

All things are possible to him that believes!

[missourimary]

If organizations are man made, so that it doesn't matter if a pastor submits to the UPC or some other organization or not, then at the same time, the churches are man made, and some pastors are man made too. Therefore....

I am part of the body of Christ. He is the head. I am not just part of a local church. God has made pastors and overseers. I believe I should be in submission to authority. But I believe pastors must be in obedience as well. If not we have chaos... well, kind of like we have now in some areas.

Part of whether a pastor can be in submission and pull out has to do with who the pastor looks to. Some look to leadership that would go down with the ship. Others look to men that would pull out as quick as possible. Pastors affiliate themselves with others that are like minded, not necessarily a district or sectional presbyter, so ones who want to leave associate and look to others that want to leave. Therefore they leave while still "obeying their elders."

I don't know what to think of any of it. I do believe that if someone wants to leave a church or if a pastor wants to leave an organization, they should be sincerely spoken to and reached for, but if they still want to leave, let them leave. Don't be angry or upset, just let them leave. If saints wanted to stay in UPC and the church pulls out, let them cross the street and go to the UPC church though, without reprisal in the church they left or the church they went to.

Why can't we all just be nice to each other?

[Sister Alvear]

as long as there are humans there will be man made organizations...and sadly politics...

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

as long as there are humans there will be man made organizations...and sadly politics...

Yes, sister Alvear, but here is some advice to watch for.


1) God ordained pastors love all and lead by compassion. Lording pastors despise compassion, they rather demand than encourage.

2) God ordained pastors lead by example. Lording pastors demand without concern that they must live by what they preach.

3) God ordained pastors know congregants aren't his personal possession. Lording pastors believe they own their congregants, and can control them according to the lording pastor's own will.

4) God ordained pastors are humble and consider themselves equal to the flock. Lording pastors exalt themselves above congregants.

5) God ordained pastors build saints and free them to do God’s will. God ordained pastors care about the welfare of saints rather than his own profit. Lording pastors want to control congregants and hold them down to secure his incoming revenue, the size of his church, etc.


I feel like telling somebody (slams hand on the pulpit!)

[Sister Alvear]

very true.