You Be The Judge: Afp1996 vs Jason - Page 7

Steve Epley · #61 05-10-2009, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossfire

But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 KJV)

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Matthew 24:29-31 KJV)

Notice the key points listed here...

1. A gathering of the saints.
2. A literal resurrection of those saints which sleep in the grave.
2. A gathering of the saints which are alive and remain.
4. The appearance of Jesus in the clouds.

All these are points which proclaim the rapture doctrine true. Your point about the word not appearing in the scriptures is a straw man, and not really a point at all. But, the fact is, this preterist doctrine is a doctrine which denies the reality of the rapture doctrine, thus is a false doctrine.

As touching the 70 Weeks of daniel, I am not a dispensationalist. I believe they have been fulfilled. However, their fulfillment does not negate the future return of the Lord. This doctrine may be able to withstand the trinitarian dispensational doctrine, but not true Apostolic eschatology.

Thank you. They attempt to place everyone in a neat little box they rejects their heresy. I know many Apostolic preachers that believe the 70 weeks have been fulfilled but preach the literal return of Christ-resurrection of the dead-future judgment of the wicked.

Steve Epley · #62 05-10-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shag

Why is it you left out this verse (3 verses later) when U quoted Matt. 24? 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Epley thinks He meant the Jewish race. Perhaps you agree with Epley, or maybe you see "THIS GENERATION" as the gentiles, or possibly somebody else other than what the scripure actually says. BTW, Epley, Why didnt Jesus just say "The jewish race" instead of "this generation?

Why would He have to since He was speaking to Jews? The Irish-English-Germans-Lamites were not there.

This is so absurd.

Crossfire · #63 05-10-2009, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Thank you. They attempt to place everyone in a neat little box they rejects their heresy. I know many Apostolic preachers that believe the 70 weeks have been fulfilled but preach the literal return of Christ-resurrection of the dead-future judgment of the wicked.

I know many of them, Elder. Many believe as I have stated here, and are not polluted by the preterist doctrine.

I believe that as time progresses, people will see the preterist doctrine for what it is, heresy, and more will come out of it. Their reasoning is Gnostic in origin, as is their hermentical understanding and interpretation of scripture.

Steve Epley · #64 05-10-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossfire

Beware of those who enter in to your battle who seem unarmed, for their weapons are far stronger than you possibly think.

The preterist folly is a Gnostic style of hermeneutic, falsely interpreting spiritual scriptures, a form of doctrinal interpretation which is condemned by the early church. But, then again, I guess the preterists are satisfied with being extra-biblical, seeing they also take their position from the writings of Josephus and such.

He who seems unarmed is more than dangerous.

Very astute. Their doctrine is as strong as the broth made from the shadow of a skinny chicken.

Crossfire · #65 05-10-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Very astute. Their doctrine is as strong as the broth made from the shadow of a skinny chicken.

Well, I have never heard it put that way, Elder, but you are correct.

Preterism is Gnostic in belief system, because it involves secret interpretations of scripture, not direct understanding, as the Bible declares.

Steve Epley · #66 05-10-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossfire

Well, I have never heard it put that way, Elder, but you are correct.

Preterism is Gnostic in belief system, because it involves secret interpretations of scripture, not direct understanding, as the Bible declares.

Their method is so mysticial nothing is as it seems.

afp1996 · #67 05-10-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossfire

Beware of those who enter in to your battle who seem unarmed, for their weapons are far stronger than you possibly think.

The preterist folly is a Gnostic style of hermeneutic, falsely interpreting spiritual scriptures, a form of doctrinal interpretation which is condemned by the early church. But, then again, I guess the preterists are satisfied with being extra-biblical, seeing they also take their position from the writings of Josephus and such.

He who seems unarmed is more than dangerous.

And futurist from the newspapers. So I guess we are in good company, eh?

afp1996 · #68 05-10-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossfire

And one should never enter into a battle of wits with unarmed men.

Just so you know, to my knowledge, TJJJ is not an AFP.

Steve Epley · #69 05-10-2009, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afp1996

And futurist from the newspapers... So I guess we are in good company, eh?

From folks who quote Josephus like he was inspired.

afp1996 · #70 05-10-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossfire

Well, I have never heard it put that way, Elder, but you are correct.

Preterism is Gnostic in belief system, because it involves secret interpretations of scripture, not direct understanding, as the Bible declares.

Pure opinion. Your argument is based on your own idea of the the scripture states. You gave reference to some scriptures and then stated your ideas. You will have to do better than that to prove what you believe is correct.

Oh yea, and I could care less what the early Catholic church rejected or not. They could reject Gnosticism all they wanted to. It does not effect our doctrine because our doctrine is not Gnostic. Try again, Brother. You are not even close, and close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.