Collateral Damage

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You see ... now Renda ... you've hit on the nose ... My Dad spent 98% of his preaching/teaching time on walking with God [prayer, fasting, loving one another] the other 1% on social issues ... and the other 1% on 'the rules'.

That sounds about like the proprtion in my own ministry.

On this site, we fuss about issues, but I rarely preach standards at home. I don't have to.

If people pray and walk in the Spirit, they usually make good lifestyle choices.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Yea, but this creates a slippery slope because you could find a standard on just about anything including, for example, the OT admonisment to not eat catfish.

No one seems to have noticed or acknowledge Paul's statement that if you follow the law in even one element, you will be judged according to the entire law....the ENTIRE LAW...

Carp,

You know and I know that there is a difference between the ceremonial laws of Moses that were nailed to the cross, and God's moral law, of which the Ten Commandments are an example.

(This is the part where you make your run at Deut. 22:5)

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I think that the "collateral damage" can happen at anytime for anyreason. The real matter is what is causing it. In your original question you stateda bout a pastor unknowingly doing this. Well, seeing that we are all human we are all capable of doing this. However, leadership is held to higher standard, as you well know. The crucks of the matter is like the a previous poster said is it on purpose of an accident.

My guess is that if the pastor does it on purpose then God knows and he will reap what he/she sowed. If accidentally God knows too. I am in a situation where the pastor of the UPC church I have been attending and his family have attacked a friend of mine and his familiy, that used to be at our church.
This friend of mine was accused of somethings that I am sure he did not do because we were together at the time "it" was suppose to happen.

In this situation, the pastor may know that my friend is telling the truth, but the accusation comes from acouple of memebers of his family. I believe that he think the family is right, but the way he is attacking this family is wrong.

Like I always say there are three sides to every story. What someone else sees, what I see and what God knows. God is the one to judge the quick and the dead.

In your friends situation where he can not get a licsense. Why does that matter really. If he is called then he is called by God not an organization. If he does not have a licsense there are other ways, places, and organizations that could "card him." If it just because of the wants to be in the UPC then the guy can go through Headquarters, express his opinion of this matter and get it resolved. If it is a matter of polotics, then he probably does not need to be in there anyway. Do you know what I mean? If polotics are keeping him out why then get in? He can fellowship the UPC with out the card.

The real issue is not why the man wants a license. The real issue is that he cannot receive it because of some man's corn cob (tic).

I think that is wrong, and sinful, and that God will judge for it.

Sure the guy could go somehwere else, and he most assuradly doesn't need a license to preach. But to be hindered by the whim and personal vendetta of an overzealous bishop is inexcusable.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

That sounds about like the proprtion in my own ministry.

On this site, we fuss about issues, but I rarely preach standards at home. I don't have to.

If people pray and walk in the Spirit, they usually make good lifestyle choices.

You're a good pastor, then.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You're a good pastor, then.

And a very good man.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Renda,

The men who preach against rings will cite the Scripture the frowns on the wearing of gold.

Again, you might not agree with that application, but it is not simply some wild, arbitrary standard with no Scriptural precedent.

And that is fine if THAT person feels that way, but does a pastor that feels that way need to convince his saints that don't feel that way that it's wrong?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

That sounds about like the proprtion in my own ministry.

On this site, we fuss about issues, but I rarely preach standards at home. I don't have to.

If people pray and walk in the Spirit, they usually make good lifestyle choices.

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

You're a good pastor, then.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

And a very good man.

AMEN!

[originalsecretplace]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

We have often discussed the misnomer that a pastor will anwer for all of the parishoners in his church at judgement day. From what I have read on AFF, most of us are in agreement that each individual will stand before God alone. The pastor will not be there to mediate, nor will he be held responsible for those who refused obedience to the Word. His only obligation is to preach the whole counsel of God.

But what if leadership unknowingly causes someone to stumble and fall? What if leadership adds an unnecessary burden that a Christian cannot bear? What if a leader's politics builds his own kingdom instead of God's?

What will happen to those who kill innocents through "friendly fire"? Is a certain amount of collateral damage necessary to win this spiritual war?

I think that whatever you do or say you have to do in a circumspect manner so that you are very careful not to offend.

The importance of how you treat your brother and sister, I think, has been underestimated and virutally ignored in favour of keeping our "pet" beliefs and maintaining our own economies of being "right".

In God's, economy there is nothing more precious than a person and no better atmosphere than one of unity and peace. In our economy there is nothing more precious than being "right" and getting our own way.

To keep offence from fracturing the relationship between Bros and Sis in the Lord Jesus gave pretty direct instructions on how to handle problems. He also talked of forgiveness when at the receiving end as well as what will happen at the giving end. Each is responsible to keep the peace and unity of an offence.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

And that is fine if THAT person feels that way, but does a pastor that feels that way need to convince his saints that don't feel that way that it's wrong?

Renda,

We could go round and around this mulberry bush for a long time.

My wife and I don't wear rings.

Our saints don't wear them either.

I have never told anyone they would go to hell for wearing them; I have never asked a soul to take their ring off.

When I teach on modesty, I teach that, in my opinion, the best application and the safest application of the Scripture is to not wear gold. I know that God isn't going to be displeased when I don't wear it.

I guess our folks respect me enough that they comply without getting major pressure from me.

I have been blessed in my ministry thus far in that dealing with rebellion against what I teach has really never been much of an issue.

[Felicity]

Always back to standards. LOL.