UPCI GB Meeting - what would you want to tell them

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I don't think anyone has used the word emergent other than those who want to derogatively label this group ....

BTW, I think Keith used the word emerging ...

It used to be called "compromise" in yesterday's terms... but it is mostly left leaning Pentecostal's that used to or were raised in the UPC/Apostolic or around it...

Mostly I think it is those who once carried standards but have let those go...

[Pastor Keith]

Emergent or Relevant Churches might or might not fall under the these characteristics/traits: Bear with me as I am shooting these off the top of my mind.

• Relevant Music User Friends meeting places
• Dress down styles for ministers (most people don't wear suits these days)
• Shorter discussion like sermons with power points with current relevant themes, how does the Gospel and my relationship with God change my sex life, my career goals, the arts etc.
  
• Meeting at different times and in different venues.
  
• Level playing field of leadership
  
• Missional in it's mindset, the Church has left the building. Meaning instead of bring people to church, take church to where people are. Under bridges, offices, marketplace, homes, etc. Be the church focus.
  
• Less institutionalism.
  
  
  
• Networking rather than creating another organization or group.
  
• Creative use of media and arts to engage the imagination and heart.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by revrandy

Dan...

did you read VL's blog or not?

I have.

Sir, you describe a dark and heinous doctrine that is sickening ... TR and Mizpeh are still waiting for hard cold facts other than a ministers varying views on topics such as cursing and tatoos.

What you are demonstrating is a lack of balance and inability to put things in their proper perspective ... rather you'd accuse a fellow minister of potentially supporting universal reconciliation...

Conjecture and hearsay is at the heart of this

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I have.

Sir, you describe a dark and heinous doctrine that is sickening ... TR and Mizpeh are still waiting for hard cold facts other than a ministers views of topics such as cursing and tatoos.

Are you in agreement with him concerning cursing and tattoo's among other liberties?

I'm lost to your comment on Doctrine????

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Emergent or Relevant Churches might or might not fall under the these characteristics/traits: Bear with me as I am shooting these off the top of my mind.

• Relevant Music User Friends meeting places
• Dress down styles for ministers (most people don't wear suits these days)
• Shorter discussion like sermons with power points with current relevant themes, how does the Gospel and my relationship with God change my sex life, my career goals, the arts etc.
  
• Meeting at different times and in different venues.
  
• Level playing field of leadership
  
• Missional in it's mindset, the Church has left the building. Meaning instead of bring people to church, take church to where people are. Under bridges, offices, marketplace, homes, etc. Be the church focus.
  
• Less institutionalism.
  
  
  
• Networking rather than creating another organization or group.
  
• Creative use of media and arts to engage the imagination and heart.

Have you seen Capital Community/ Woodwards Church???

They would seem in my opinion to a great model of what your talking about here...

Those folks have it going on...

[SDG]

Originally Posted by revrandy

It used to be called "compromise" in yesterday's terms... but it is mostly left leaning Pentecostal's that used to or were raised in the UPC/Apostolic or around it...

Mostly I think it is those who once carried standards but have let those go...

In biblical NT times some of the con objections would be called judaizing.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I don't think anyone has used the word emergent other than those who want to derogatively label this group ....

BTW, I think Keith used the word emerging ...

Sorry, Dan. I have to chime in here.

Some of us here remember well that you have no problem derogatively labeling folks you don't like.

"Holy Magic Hair" is just one of several such instances. (I don't agree with their doctrine at all, but the "HMH" description is clearly a derogatory label)

If you're against derogatory labeling, then be against it being used against anyone, not just people you might happen to like.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

I don't think anyone has used the word emergent other than those who want to derogatively label this group ....

BTW, I think Keith used the word emerging ...

Well, as you can see, Keith just used the word emergent.
(see below)

What's the difference, anyway?

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

Emergent or Relevant Churches might or might not fall under the these characteristics/traits: Bear with me as I am shooting these off the top of my mind...

[SDG]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Sorry, Dan. I have to chime in here.

Some of us here remember well that you have no problem derogatively labeling folks you don't like.

"Holy Magic Hair" is just one of several such instances. (I don't agree with their doctrine at all, but the "HMH" description is clearly a derogatory label)

If you're against derogatory labeling, then be against it being used against anyone, not just people you might happen to like.

The term describes a doctrine THAT IS RELATIVELY NEW, UNIQUE, AND LACKING A LABEL ... rooted and substantiated in books and sermons using the occult sources for it's backbone, Terrence.

Actually, the terms "holy hair" and "magic hair" predate my blog ... and has been used to accurately describe a nameless doctrine.

Further in the spirit of Jasinski and Stoneking ... occultists would actually use the term "holy magic" to describe what is being proposed by these ministers ....

a. White magic is also called holy magic
b. Propenents use this term for the power behind Samson's uncut hair.

The Bible holds a number of examples of God bestowing White Magic upon mortal men and women, other than simply working miracles around a chosen spokesman. None of it bears any resemblence to video-game White Magic, and there is certainly nothing like MP involved.

• In the Old Testament, there was Samson, who God empowered with superhuman strength to use however he saw fit, so long as he obeyed the Nazirite restrictions — it was when Samson broke the last of these (the cutting of his hair) that God withdrew His blessing. The rule against haircuts wasn't the only one, just the only one that story clearly pointed out as a rule. The rest were common knowledge to the audience of the day

Source: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhiteMagic

Proponents have used terms like "summoning angels" ... see UPCI website.


Lastly, this doctrine is being systematically taught by various ministers ... and is evident in their writings and teachings; and those practicing it.

In contrast emegent church doctrine is taught by a whole different crowd ... and they are NOT the ministers or churches being targeted in this latest witch trial ... PUN INTENDED.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Well, as you can see, Keith just used the word emergent.
(see below)

What's the difference, anyway?

He also restated whether one would rather be emerging or submerging...

I think Keith has resigned to this mislabel.

Kind of like the Apostolics here that don't "practice" traditional holiness have resigned to calling themselves another Apostolic butchered misnomer --- CHARISMATICS.

Let's call a spade a spade.