Do you choose what you believe in?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Actually Sproul is a 'classical' apologist. He wrote a book(a pretty bad one) against the Van Tillian position....

Try http://www.vantil.info/ and http://www.logos.com/vantil

I thought all Reformed Christians were presuppositionalists. I must have it backwards.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by Neck

Mu unlce pastored a southern baptist convention church in Minden, LA for 40 plus years.

A church that had 3500 members.

He was a Dr of Divinity and at the highest level in the organization.

They did not believe in miracles or healing period.

They believed those events and signs were for the days of Christ...

He would not pray for the sick...

He pastored in the same city as T.W. Barnes and they were good friends...

I agree they don't believe in the miraculous. But if someone who is sick gets well I'm sure they'd give glory to the Lord.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I thought all Reformed Christians were presuppositionalists. I must have it backwards.

Now you've got it. Sproul, Plantiga(the old man), and many other reformed types are not presuppositionalists. Men like Van Til, Bahnsen, Gentry, Frame are more a like than different. Then there are the followers of Gordon Clark......a different type of pressup.....

[Neck]

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

I agree they don't believe in the miraculous. But if someone who is sick gets well I'm sure they'd give glory to the Lord.

That they do....

My unlce himself was filled with the HG with the evidence of Speaking in Tongues. He also told me that he was baptized in JN.

He was AOG before switching to Baptist.

He called to pray for my son and healing.

The night before he passed away...

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by ILG

Nothing wrong with searching. Sometimes it opens your eyes to things you otherwise wouldn't know. Do you think this is just some sort of test and he should shut his mind off?

I'm not sure what you mean by "shut his mind off".

I've been an atheist, been there, done that. Finding out that God existed was a true revelation to me and by the grace of God something I will never give up.

For someone to have tasted of the heavenly gift and then to turn away from it is to walk on dangerous ground. I don't know all that led to the state of mind he is in today but he is being led into a strong delusion. As for a test, our faith is always being tested. He shouldn't turn his mind off but resist all of the ideas that are contrary to Christ.

My question is...does he want to? Does he really want to hold onto his faith or push it aside and walk in unbelief? How can he deny the experiences that he had with God up to this point? Emotionalism?

As you can see, I've been convinced that what I believe is true and not by man but by God and His word. The truth that God exists and that He has been revealed to us through Jesus Christ is as real to me as this keyboard that I'm typing on. The journey which he is embarking on is doomed. There is no hope, no reason for morals, no purpose for existence, and if followed to its logical conclusion will lead to despair.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'm not sure what you mean by "shut his mind off".

I've been an atheist, been there, done that. Finding out that God existed was a true revelation to me and by the grace of God something I will never give up.

For someone to have tasted of the heavenly gift and then to turn away from it is to walk on dangerous ground. I don't know all that led to the state of mind he is in today but he is being led into a strong delusion. As for a test, our faith is always being tested. He shouldn't turn his mind off but resist all of the ideas that are contrary to Christ.

My question is...does he want to? Does he really want to hold onto his faith or push it aside and walk in unbelief? How can he deny the experiences that he had with God up to this point? Emotionalism?

As you can see, I've been convinced that what I believe is true and not by man but by God and His word. The truth that God exists and that He has been revealed to us through Jesus Christ is as real to me as this keyboard that I'm typing on. The journey which he is embarking on is doomed. There is no hope, no reason for morals, no purpose for existence, and if followed to its logical conclusion will lead to despair.

Mizpeh...I won't disagree with you on much here.

But, until a person has that experience. Their own experience, it's all just words.

I grew up in the church. For a lot of reasons, even after experiencing God for myself, I walked away. I don't regret my time away. I really don't. I learned so much about myself, about God, about humanity. I don't suggest people go wandering off just for some experience.

How do you know he's tasted of the heavenly gift? Growing up in church is no promise of that. And even if he has, maybe more so if he has, don't you trust God to keep him (assuming Q is a he...)?

I think the logical conclusion of questioning is to find answers. Not despair..but hope and peace and contentment. It's what I've finally found.

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

My question is...does he want to? Does he really want to hold onto his faith or push it aside and walk in unbelief? How can he deny the experiences that he had with God up to this point? Emotionalism?

Emotionalism works. So does brain washing. So does "I don't know what it was but it's not for me." So does finding another frame of reference for those experiences.

All for awhile at least.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I'm not sure what you mean by "shut his mind off".

I've been an atheist, been there, done that. Finding out that God existed was a true revelation to me and by the grace of God something I will never give up.

For someone to have tasted of the heavenly gift and then to turn away from it is to walk on dangerous ground. I don't know all that led to the state of mind he is in today but he is being led into a strong delusion. As for a test, our faith is always being tested. He shouldn't turn his mind off but resist all of the ideas that are contrary to Christ.

My question is...does he want to? Does he really want to hold onto his faith or push it aside and walk in unbelief? How can he deny the experiences that he had with God up to this point? Emotionalism?

As you can see, I've been convinced that what I believe is true and not by man but by God and His word. The truth that God exists and that He has been revealed to us through Jesus Christ is as real to me as this keyboard that I'm typing on. The journey which he is embarking on is doomed. There is no hope, no reason for morals, no purpose for existence, and if followed to its logical conclusion will lead to despair.

That's the point. You've been convinced. You should allow your brother the same luxury. God is not scared of our questions.

[JaneEyre]

I've only read a few posts here and not sure this fits but:

The unexamined life is not worth living - Socrates so spoke at his heresy trial.

I believe God made us inquisitive creatures so we would "examine ourselves" and "search the Word"...Nothing wrong with any of that. We must pray for the Mind of Christ and not lean to our own understanding. That is where examining gets tough.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Questioner

I'm at a loss as to how to answer that since I stated in the first post that I don't believe I have chosen whether to believe or whether not to believe... that is like asking whether you like chocolate ice cream or not. If you do like chocolate ice cream, why did you choose to like it?

Well, Questioner, perhaps you overlooked a key part of my previous post. I not only reiterated CNE's question, but I also posed one of my own. Maybe you think it's an irrational question to ask why you "chose" to not believe, because you dont think its a matter of deliberate choice. Ok, fine.

My question again though, was this:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

What experiences/thoughts/ideas have brought you from "there" to "here"?

In other words, everyone is a product of their environment and their experiences....
So even if you didnt make a conscious choice to "not believe", I'm just curious... from where you began, what were the incidents, experiences, or ideas you came in contact with, that you think has led you to this point? I'd be interested in hearing about that, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

TTYL.