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Originally Posted by TCSQ
This is very interesting to me. Something I had not given much thought to before I saw some different comments. But Sam the way YOU have rendered the verse and what it ACTUALLY says are two different things. It does NOT say here anything about the need to believe that Jesus is Gods son, that he died was buried and rose again all it says here is
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God; and everyone that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him."
It says NOTHING about sonship, death burial ressurrection. It says what it says and nothing more. Now if you are of the same mind that I am you realize that one must take a holistic view of the scriptures, COMBINING them to get their full intent rather than isolating them one from another to build a conclusion of a truth or doctrine. Which is why as you CONTINUE in that same passage you come right back to what we always come right back to in salvations requirement WATER SPIRIT AND BLOOD. The testimony of God.
Simply put believing Jesus is the annointed of God is NOT all there is too it, as YOU yourself point out in your additions to what you wish the verse said (but doesn't)
Muslims DO believe that he is the Messiah (Christ) So do Jehovahs witnesses and a multitude of OTHER non "Christian" groups.
I guess what is interesting to me is that once you begin to follow a certain line of reasoning it becomes immediately clear as to its gross inconsistency.
I asked this because ***I*** have neighbours who are Jehovahs witnesses, that demonstrate a great deal of godliness at least in their behaviour with me.
Is THAT an alternative to embracing the Gospel?
Then you say that if people believe on the death burial and ressurrection of Jesus Christ they may be a brother, Jehovahs witnesses believe that . And they DO believe that Jesus is the son of God, they give a different meaning to that than Oneness people do, but so do Trinitarians and you give them a pass. Does this not put us right back into the same thinking that seems to be openly marginalized and even mocked by some on the forum that it ***IS*** what you believe about Jesus that determines your eternal standing with God?
I hope everyone is saved in the end. I wish that Carlton Pearson was right that eveyone is saved ...they just dont know it yet. But the truth is, Except a man be born again...........
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1. You sir are the one who fails to put this passage into context ...
Some faulty assumptions you have made in your attempt to discredit Sam's fair assessment of verse 1.
a.
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It says NOTHING about sonship, death burial ressurrection. It says what it says and nothing more. Now if you are of the same mind that I am you realize that one must take a holistic view of the scriptures, COMBINING them to get their full intent rather than isolating them one from another to build a conclusion of a truth or doctrine.
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The writer not only speaks of Him being the Christ but that we are to believe in God's testimony of His son....
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1Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
6This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
Concluding Remarks
13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.
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2. Seemingly,you have zero understanding of biblical belief ... and what was meant by Apostles when they used that word ....
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Muslims DO believe that he is the Messiah (Christ) So do Jehovahs witnesses and a multitude of OTHER non "Christian" groups.
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Belief here is not mental assent or recognition ..... it is in total trust, reliance .. It comes from the hebraic understanding of "clinging".
It's this fundamental breakdown in 3 step theology and mindset that renders to use silly terms like "easy-believism".
This is furthest from the truth ...
3. You also said .... It says NOTHING about sonship, death burial ressurrection.
It says what it says and nothing more. Now if you are of the same mind that I am you realize that one must take a holistic view of the scriptures, COMBINING them to get their full intent rather than isolating them one from another to build a conclusion of a truth or doctrine. Which is why as you CONTINUE in that same passage you come right back to what we always come right back to in salvations requirement WATER SPIRIT AND BLOOD. The testimony of God.
Are you funny, today? You accuse Sam of being fuzzy and creative w/ a passage. Nothing more and nothing less.
This passage does not speak of a believer's 3 step response to salvation ... it does however speak of WHO SAVES US.
Verse 6 is the key, TCSQ ... that you seem to gloss over ...
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This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood
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Further it is the Spirit that testifies that He came through water and blood .... more importantly .... the writer CLEARLY STATES that we have this testimony of His coming as the Christ and His Spirit in our our hearts WHEN WE
BELIEVE HE IS THE SON OF GOD (v.10)....
7For there are three that
testify: 8the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. 9We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the
testimony of God, which he has given about his
Son. 10Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart.
In conclusion, Sam's exegesis is sound based on the full context of John's writing ... and once again, TCSQ, your paradigm skews your ability to break down scripture for what it says.
The testimony is not our response, sir ... no where does this passage say that .... the testimony is Him (v.6).
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart (v.10)
Verse 11 summarizes it all saying:
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And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.
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I understand the CONFUSION, however ...
when some of you as much as see a PUDDLE in God's Word you think it refers to how you save yourself through a properly administered baptism ...
Water has many meanings in the Word, my brother. Keep that in mind, please, for future reference.
1 John tells us ho we are born again ... and what is the testimony of being born of God .... BIBLICAL BELIEF in His Son. No 2 ways about it.
Lastly, putting Sam in the same breathe w/ CP is laughable and denigrates your credibility.
Thank you and have a great Sunday.
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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