Colored Lights/Smoke Machines/Strobe Bright Lights

[Praxeas]

1Cor's argument was "you can find these in clubs" and that means they are wrong. He totally missed the irony though. If the above is true then it is true always and not subject to personal bias, which is what I think this is really about.

As it was pointed out, you can find musical instruments in these clubs. So if we were consistant here musical instruments have to be wrong regardless of what the bible says. But since we know the bible mentions musical instruments in a good light this disproves the notion that just because you find it in a club it is wrong. That effectively removes the foundation of his argument.

Ever been to a concert outdoors? No lights or fog but lots of speakers and amps and musical instruments...that cancels out any campmeeting, even the one in Ventura.

The world is not an object. It is a world view and a mindset. Christians have a Christ based world view and sinners have a self based world view and mindset. John wrote "All that is of the world, the lust of the eyes and flesh and pride of life is of the world"

Colored lights? I hope some of you christmas celebrants are repenting now. Another word for colored lights is ambiengt lighting...you see that at Disneyland, Magic Mountain or other venues. You also see that at fine dining restaraunts.

Yes Paul used a pagan alter. No he did no build it, but he used it to get the attention of the people so he can preach to them. Most churches only use these elements to attract more attention and then they preach to them.

Early pioneers used brush arbors and tents. Imagine a huge tent being erected...it would get attention.

there is nothing morally wrong in colors or lights or fog, that is absurd...in fact that sounds very gnostic.

That is why TVs are not evil objects. They are just boxes of electronics...you are not gonna go to hell by walking past them at Best Buy.

BTW I've only seen things like fog and strobes used in a way to entertain, not as part of a worship service. I have seen them at concerts and plays. I have seen colored lighting used at worship services though for youth. No biggie.

BTW they have regular lights at clubs. They have chairs. They have a lot of things, just because they use them does not make them worldly anymore than instruments..

Oh yeah..they did not have bass or regular guitars or drum sets in bible days. They had something like a guitar in the harp and probably had drums more like what you see pagan tribes using while dancing around the fire.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Unintelligence at its best.

I am crushed that you find me unintelligent.

Now I will probably be up all night weeping at the prospect.

(on a serious note thank you for starting an interesting thread. I have not answered on it as I have been swampd today but I knew many others would take up the challenge in a serious way and they have)

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

1Cor's argument was "you can find these in clubs" and that means they are wrong. He totally missed the irony though. If the above is true then it is true always and not subject to personal bias, which is what I think this is really about.

As it was pointed out, you can find musical instruments in these clubs. So if we were consistant here musical instruments have to be wrong regardless of what the bible says. But since we know the bible mentions musical instruments in a good light this disproves the notion that just because you find it in a club it is wrong. That effectively removes the foundation of his argument.

Ever been to a concert outdoors? No lights or fog but lots of speakers and amps and musical instruments...that cancels out any campmeeting, even the one in Ventura.

The world is not an object. It is a world view and a mindset. Christians have a Christ based world view and sinners have a self based world view and mindset. John wrote "All that is of the world, the lust of the eyes and flesh and pride of life is of the world"

Colored lights? I hope some of you christmas celebrants are repenting now. Another word for colored lights is ambiengt lighting...you see that at Disneyland, Magic Mountain or other venues. You also see that at fine dining restaraunts.

Yes Paul used a pagan alter. No he did no build it, but he used it to get the attention of the people so he can preach to them. Most churches only use these elements to attract more attention and then they preach to them.

Early pioneers used brush arbors and tents. Imagine a huge tent being erected...it would get attention.

there is nothing morally wrong in colors or lights or fog, that is absurd...in fact that sounds very gnostic.

That is why TVs are not evil objects. They are just boxes of electronics...you are not gonna go to hell by walking past them at Best Buy.

BTW I've only seen things like fog and strobes used in a way to entertain, not as part of a worship service. I have seen them at concerts and plays. I have seen colored lighting used at worship services though for youth. No biggie.

BTW they have regular lights at clubs. They have chairs. They have a lot of things, just because they use them does not make them worldly anymore than instruments..

Oh yeah..they did not have bass or regular guitars or drum sets in bible days. They had something like a guitar in the harp and probably had drums more like what you see pagan tribes using while dancing around the fire.

Great post, Prax! You said everything that I wanted to say, but you said it WAY better.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Great post, Prax! You said everything that I wanted to say, but you said it WAY better.

Yup. I had meant to give Prax kudos also and forgot to. I was too upset over Mr. Corinithans thinking me unintelligent. All that work to graduate from a UPC Bible College with a Theology degree only to have an intellectual giant like Mr. Corinthians tell me it apparently was all for naught.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by CC1

Yup. I had meant to give Prax kudos also and forgot to. I was too upset over Mr. Corinithans thinking me unintelligent. All that work to graduate from a UPC Bible College with a Theology degree only to have an intellectual giant like Mr. Corinthians tell me it apparently was all for naught.

He trumped you by going to Cornell, Columbia and UGST

[Encryptus]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He trumped you by going to Cornell, Columbia and UGST

Lost count, was it two or three doctorates???

[South of I 90]

Fluorescent lights grieves my spirit in a huge way!

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by South of I 90

Fluorescent lights grieves my spirit in a huge way!

I just installed a couple of black lights beneath my velvet Elvis.
Actually I AM using a couple in a little built in nook in the wall. I am also adding a small fog machine as well -the kind you can pick up at a Spencers gifts.

[MikeinAR]

I appreciate the good points made on both sides of the issue. Just to be clear, I have no problem whatsoever with theatrical things like fog machines, and strobe lights being used in drama ministry. Drama's are powerful tools that reach people visually that, in some cases, wouldn't be reached through other means.

My problem with fog and strobe lights is when it's used during normal worship time. My pastor told me about visiting a church in Arizona to preach and during the congregational singing and worship time, suddenly the lights were turned out and the strobes began flashing while people we're worshipping through song.

In normal worship settings(aka singing and worship time), I fail to see how that gives glory to God or draws attention to HIM.

Obviously, David advocating using instruments to worship God. Given the size of buildings and the necessity for people to hear, we all use electronics to help convey the audio. I haven't come up with an actual reason why fog and smoke during song services help convey the message more clearly or efficiently. Maybe for the first time, I'm actually a Con on an issue.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

I appreciate the good points made on both sides of the issue. Just to be clear, I have no problem whatsoever with theatrical things like fog machines, and strobe lights being used in drama ministry. Drama's are powerful tools that reach people visually that, in some cases, wouldn't be reached through other means.

My problem with fog and strobe lights is when it's used during normal worship time. My pastor told me about visiting a church in Arizona to preach and during the congregational singing and worship time, suddenly the lights were turned out and the strobes began flashing while people we're worshipping through song.

In normal worship settings(aka singing and worship time), I fail to see how that gives glory to God or draws attention to HIM.

Obviously, David advocating using instruments to worship God. Given the size of buildings and the necessity for people to hear, we all use electronics to help convey the audio. I haven't come up with an actual reason why fog and smoke during song services help convey the message more clearly or efficiently. Maybe for the first time, I'm actually a Con on an issue.

I would oppose that not because "it's of the world" but because it is distracting