Question For My Oneness Friends... - Page 7

Tim Wiggins · #61 06-17-2008, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbundantGrace

Thank you all for you honest input, my FRIENDS. Yes, I said Oneness Friends. I may not agree with you, but I still consider you to be my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. I'm sorry that some of you can't call me the same, nor even consider me to be your friend.

I knew, because of my raising and 36 years within the UPC in Louisiana, that this thread would probably ignite a little fire. That was not my intention and I will not argue with any of you on what you've stated. When I asked the question, it was a sincere attempt to get your honest perspective, as I had a trinitarian brother share that with me yesterday evening in a way in which I'd never heard it and I did not share his perspective, but again, did not argue. I asked it here simply to get your input.

Again, I am not going to argue with you about this, but I will say this. For the most part, many of you have spit your venom at me simply because I do not share the same views as you do. Many on here, myself included, enjoy taking pop shots at one another in jest, but when you can't even call someone your friend because they don't see things just as you do, then you need to check your salvation, because Christ is not in you!

I realize that every organization has it's group of self-righteous, religious, Pharisees and I've been a part of several of them and around many of them, but that spirit is more prominent within the UPC than anything else I've ever been around in my life! You kill your own with your self-made holiness standards, which are deemed by many to be heaven or hell issues, yet vary from church to church. When someone differs with you, you're too holy to work with them in a spirit of Christ-like love. You gossip and backbite and condemn anyone that you can't control. And if anyone ever leaves your doctrine, then they are automatically deemed to be a reprobate who has rejected "truth" and believed a lie and is damned! Using Greek terminology, "HOGWASH"!

In UPC, we always stated that "Jesus Paid It All!" Those are empty words within the UPC!

The real belief in the heart of the UPC, evidenced by their words, their attitude toward others and their heaven or hell holiness standards is this. "Jesus, we believe that you are God made manifest in the flesh and we know that you came to this earth and lived a sinless life and you died a horrible death and rose again and you did it all for our salvation. We believe that your precious blood is what covers our sin. And we appreciate what You've done for us. And we're gonna sing about the Cross and preach about it and thank You for it, but really it just wasn't quite enough! We know that You tried and we know that You did a lot at Calvary, but still it just wasn't quite enough to save us. So we're gonna try and help You out by making some standards that we think are Holy enough to help save us. And if we can get people to keep these standards, then that plus what You did at the Cross, should be enough."

Now, I know that some of you are probably either laughing or you're boiling mad right now, but if you ever get honest enough and look at it sincerely, that's basically what your RELIGION teaches.

Paul made it so clear when He said that it is by GRACE you have been saved and this (salvation) not of yourselves; for it is the GIFT of God, NOT BY WORKS so that NO MAN can boast! Yet so many of you boast about your righteousness in keeping the "standards". You brag about "I don't do this and I don't do that" and you're believing and trusting in those empty works for your salvation! My friend, SALVATION is of the CROSS and NOTHING MORE! If you add ANYTHING to the Cross, you're in error!

And I know that someone's gonna pop up any second now and spit it out "Faith without works is dead". That scripture is a prime example of a scripture that has been manipulated and misconstrued by the UPC and others like them. You emphasize that word WORKS there and you place your focus on those WORKS. However, the emphasis is on FAITH. If you truly have Living, Saving Faith, it will produce the fruit of Good Works. The works are simply a product of the faith.

Anyway, I've beat this horse long enough. For most of you, who do not consider me to be your friend, much less your brother in Christ, because my beliefs are not just as yours (you'd be surprised, I'm not that far away from most of you), I will not be back on this Forum any longer. Of course, after this, I may not be ALLOWED back on this forum. That's fine.

I sincerely and I mean that, pray God's blessings upon each of you. I may sound angry in some of the things that I've said, I'm really not. However, I've witnessed so much HOGWASH within the UPC and this thread just brought it all back home so vividly. I do consider you to be my brothers and sisters in Christ and I believe that one day we will be together with our Savior in Glory, but for now, I believe that many of you are in error. Thank God for His Abundant Grace even when our views are flawed.

God Bless You All Is My Prayer!

Please notice that AG's post does not have even ONE word about Revelation 5 which was his original question. This shows me that his REAL MOTIVE was not to discuss Rev 5. He had an ulterior motive, and that was to express his bitterness with the apostolic oneness message.

It shatters the illusion of integrity...

TRW

Brother Price · #62 06-17-2008, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AbundantGrace

Thank you all for you honest input, my FRIENDS. Yes, I said Oneness Friends. I may not agree with you, but I still consider you to be my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. I'm sorry that some of you can't call me the same, nor even consider me to be your friend.

I knew, because of my raising and 36 years within the UPC in Louisiana, that this thread would probably ignite a little fire. That was not my intention and I will not argue with any of you on what you've stated. When I asked the question, it was a sincere attempt to get your honest perspective, as I had a trinitarian brother share that with me yesterday evening in a way in which I'd never heard it and I did not share his perspective, but again, did not argue. I asked it here simply to get your input.

Again, I am not going to argue with you about this, but I will say this. For the most part, many of you have spit your venom at me simply because I do not share the same views as you do. Many on here, myself included, enjoy taking pop shots at one another in jest, but when you can't even call someone your friend because they don't see things just as you do, then you need to check your salvation, because Christ is not in you!

I realize that every organization has it's group of self-righteous, religious, Pharisees and I've been a part of several of them and around many of them, but that spirit is more prominent within the UPC than anything else I've ever been around in my life! You kill your own with your self-made holiness standards, which are deemed by many to be heaven or hell issues, yet vary from church to church. When someone differs with you, you're too holy to work with them in a spirit of Christ-like love. You gossip and backbite and condemn anyone that you can't control. And if anyone ever leaves your doctrine, then they are automatically deemed to be a reprobate who has rejected "truth" and believed a lie and is damned! Using Greek terminology, "HOGWASH"!

In UPC, we always stated that "Jesus Paid It All!" Those are empty words within the UPC!

The real belief in the heart of the UPC, evidenced by their words, their attitude toward others and their heaven or hell holiness standards is this. "Jesus, we believe that you are God made manifest in the flesh and we know that you came to this earth and lived a sinless life and you died a horrible death and rose again and you did it all for our salvation. We believe that your precious blood is what covers our sin. And we appreciate what You've done for us. And we're gonna sing about the Cross and preach about it and thank You for it, but really it just wasn't quite enough! We know that You tried and we know that You did a lot at Calvary, but still it just wasn't quite enough to save us. So we're gonna try and help You out by making some standards that we think are Holy enough to help save us. And if we can get people to keep these standards, then that plus what You did at the Cross, should be enough."

Now, I know that some of you are probably either laughing or you're boiling mad right now, but if you ever get honest enough and look at it sincerely, that's basically what your RELIGION teaches.

Paul made it so clear when He said that it is by GRACE you have been saved and this (salvation) not of yourselves; for it is the GIFT of God, NOT BY WORKS so that NO MAN can boast! Yet so many of you boast about your righteousness in keeping the "standards". You brag about "I don't do this and I don't do that" and you're believing and trusting in those empty works for your salvation! My friend, SALVATION is of the CROSS and NOTHING MORE! If you add ANYTHING to the Cross, you're in error!

And I know that someone's gonna pop up any second now and spit it out "Faith without works is dead". That scripture is a prime example of a scripture that has been manipulated and misconstrued by the UPC and others like them. You emphasize that word WORKS there and you place your focus on those WORKS. However, the emphasis is on FAITH. If you truly have Living, Saving Faith, it will produce the fruit of Good Works. The works are simply a product of the faith.

Anyway, I've beat this horse long enough. For most of you, who do not consider me to be your friend, much less your brother in Christ, because my beliefs are not just as yours (you'd be surprised, I'm not that far away from most of you), I will not be back on this Forum any longer. Of course, after this, I may not be ALLOWED back on this forum. That's fine.

I sincerely and I mean that, pray God's blessings upon each of you. I may sound angry in some of the things that I've said, I'm really not. However, I've witnessed so much HOGWASH within the UPC and this thread just brought it all back home so vividly. I do consider you to be my brothers and sisters in Christ and I believe that one day we will be together with our Savior in Glory, but for now, I believe that many of you are in error. Thank God for His Abundant Grace even when our views are flawed.

God Bless You All Is My Prayer!

AG, you need to let go of the hurts of your past, if you ever intend to walk into the future you have in Christ. I am the last person to ever defend the UPC, or ever will, but I cannot hold on to the hurt I suffered if I intend to go on and become all Christ wants me to be.

I do not believe in the salvational standards doctrine, and believe that such teaching has become a tool of the enemy to take the focus off of the Cross and put it own a works based salvation. I have debated many on here in this arena. However, recently, I noticed something. I had spent so much time discussing standards that I had neglected the need to reach out and fulfill my own call, which is to preach the Gospel.

AG, surrender this hurt, and allow the Lord to heal you. It is the only way you will be able to move ahead in the Lord. Let it go, before it consumes you, and you become as bitter as you claim some on here have been (though I personally have not seen that much 'venom' on here).

OneAccord · #63 06-17-2008, 06:07 AM

I haven't responded on this thread because it seemed obvious to me that the question posed initially would create a firestorm of debate and discussion. I try to avoid disagreements because, and this is my personal point of view, fellowship between brothers and sisters is more important to me than the things we disagree about. I've been coming to this forum (and others) for a while now and I have seen what disagreements can do to the fellowship and friendship of people who use beliefs as a sort of litmus test upon which the base their fellowship. I try to follow what I believe to be the biblical example of basing fellowship on the common experience of being filled with the Holy Ghost. "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body..."

That being said... while I haven't read much of this thread, I do consider people my friends and even brothers and sisters in the Lord, even though we disagree on some issues. I have nothing bad to say about the UPC so I can't really respond to your feelings regarding the organization. I can say that, like all organizations, it has its flaws. But, its not the organization that I seek to fellowship with... it is the people within it. There are good people in the UPC- as there are good people on this forum. There are good people in the AOG, COG, etc. who I believe to have been genuinely filled with the Holy Ghost. They are my brothers and sisters in the Lord. I may disagree with their doctrinal views, and they may disagree with mine.... I still consider them friends, and I hope the feeling is mutual. I may disagree with you, Brother. I don't really know, haven't interacted with you that I am aware of. But unless you show me differently, I consider you a brother in the Lord. I sure won't make a snap judgement based on something you post. I'll consider you a friend, and I won't allow strife to come between us. I have Baptist friends I refer to as brother. Do we disagree? Of course we do. But we are still brothers. And we are still friends. Some may consider me a compromiser, but thats okay. I guess my fellowhip bar is a little lower than others. So, now that thats out of the way, don't post and run. Stay and lets build a foundation for mutual fellowship. "Let us reason together..." (With the emphasis on "TOGETHER".) And... well, just see my sig line. The words of Abraham say it better than I could ever say it.

TCSQ · #64 06-17-2008, 02:44 PM

[QUOTE=AbundantGrace;498955]Thank you all for you honest input, my FRIENDS. Yes, I said Oneness Friends. I may not agree with you, but I still consider you to be my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus. I'm sorry that some of you can't call me the same, nor even consider me to be your friend.

My friend, SALVATION is of the CROSS and NOTHING MORE! If you add ANYTHING to the Cross, you're in error!

Surely you can't honestly believe that salvation is of the cross and NOTHING more! Do you actually intend to imply that had their been no ressurection there would have been salvation? I think not. Or were you trying to imply that BELIVING in the cross and the death of Jesus Christ alone negates the CLEAR Bible teaching concerning OBEYING , Believing AND receving the Gospel and its promises, and by the way as another poster noted, and what has struck me as well reading your last post, you NOWHERE mention your red herring question concerning Revelation five. You certainly did have some unfriendly repsonses, could it be that those who responded so "harshly" were actually just run of the mill Apostolics who have been down this pointless road before and already anticipated the true nature of your question which was no question after all but rather just another lame attempt to infer that the word God does indeed have a novel definition among your brand of trinitarians which is to give it the meaning NOT of a supreme divine being but rather to reinvent the term to mean STATE of being divine that several enjoy. Whatever, it does seem odd that after seven pages of postings you NOWHERE respond to any of those (ncluding myself) who DID respond to you without insult or slander.

Praxeas · #65 06-17-2008, 04:13 PM

He asked. We answered. He says this is the typical response (so why ask?) then goes on an anti-Oneness rant

SavedLou · #66 06-17-2008, 04:21 PM

"And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and ONE sat on the throne. " -Revelation 4:2

This was one of the turning points for me on my journey from trinity into oneness. Yes, we sometimes use the same scriptures to disprove each other. But at the end of the day, you either believe that there is only ONE God or you believe there are three God-type persons, co-equal/co-eternal as the trinity states. Also, trinitarians will always use the reference about Jesus being seated at the right hand of the Father. If this were true, and the Holy Ghost is also a co-equal "person" of the Godhead, then wouldn't He have a throne? To the left of the Father? Noone has ever been able to answer that for me.

U376977 · #67 06-17-2008, 04:32 PM

AG. Your use of the word "friend" is disturbing. Jesus called Judas a "friend." Sure, we are "friends." But, beyond a "friend" is a brother. For one who has known THE truth and turned away like a "dog to vomit" and thereby "bringing Christ to an open shame" it is very hard to go beyond "friend." I will labor with anyone trying to be birthed into the kingdom, but not for one who would bring "winds" of contrary false doctrine to those who hold Jesus Christ in such esteem as being the only God.

clgustaveson · #68 06-17-2008, 04:35 PM

Since this isn't about Rev. 5 why are we even entertaining this?

Simply saying that he is bitter just feeds the fire...

He has said multiple times he doesn't want to argue about it so just leave him alone I guess... quit talking about how bitter he is...

TRFrance · #69 06-17-2008, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clgustaveson

Since this isn't about Rev. 5 why are we even entertaining this?

Simply saying that he is bitter just feeds the fire...

He has said multiple times he doesn't want to argue about it so just leave him alone I guess... quit talking about how bitter he is...

He has come here and spewed his rhetorical vomit all over us Oneness folks... and you think people here are not going to respond?

Come on,now.