I just received my book...

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

Very true.

When it comes to issues I am voting on....I do not want to read something that is solely for or against. I want to view the issue and then read the pro and the con side.

It's just like this and other forums....you have an issue and then read statements pro and con.

I am different.

I like to read things that bolster my confidence in the opinion I already hold, and give me ammo to shoot the other side down with.

[SoCaliUPC]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I am different.

I like to read things that bolster my confidence in the opinion I already hold, and give me ammo to shoot the other side down with.

Which also speaks to a point that I made a few months ago about a preliminary "vote" of the constituency prior to the vote in Tampa. If it is reported that 79% of the members are FOR the resolution, I doubt the 21% are going to change their vote because the majority of the members are FOR it. No matter what the vote of the entire constituency is...the vote that matters is in Tampa and I doubt the "prelim vote" will have any effect on those voting for or against the resolution.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Just a Shepherd

I am curious how you judge that? If you came and preached for me what would you be looking for? Would you be visiting our members homes? Looking for an anti TV poster on the wall or waiting for me to "shuck a little corn" about the evils of TV as a warm up to introducing you?

Really how do you qualify a statement like that?

My statement comes from 'knowledge' I do NOT know ONE UPC preacher in this area who makes any issue about television???? The saints have them they work with the saints I pastor. I have pastored in Kentucky-Tennesee, Florida and in the areas I pastored it was the same. I travel the country I hear the same from pastors I fellowship with that those who stand against television are the exception and not the rule.

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

I am different.

I like to read things that bolster my confidence in the opinion I already hold, and give me ammo to shoot the other side down with.

Pow!

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by SoCaliUPC

Which also speaks to a point that I made a few months ago about a preliminary "vote" of the constituency prior to the vote in Tampa. If it is reported that 79% of the members are FOR the resolution, I doubt the 21% are going to change their vote because the majority of the members are FOR it. No matter what the vote of the entire constituency is...the vote that matters is in Tampa and I doubt the "prelim vote" will have any effect on those voting for or against the resolution.

Pastor Poster posted 56% and I thought that was high. Who is suggesting a 79% in favor number?

[vrblackwell]

I am so sick of the whole argument. I'm sorry, but if you need these men or any other men to tell you which way to vote this issue then you do not need to be voting.

I don't believe a new argument can be made for or against that has not been heard. It is silly that we are even arguing about this in the year 2007 with all the technology that is now available.

I think we need to vote radio, Internet, and pa systems out along with TV. They are all ruled by the devil. There is twice as much garbage on all of them as there is good.

This way we will be more consistent, and live back in the 50's and 60's where it seems so many want to stay. I'm game. sounds like fun. Who would like to help me write the resolution.

We also should vote out the use of mail-outs, signs, and anything else that is not one on one evangelism. In-fact, let's make it where the only method one can use is door-knocking.

And we also need only use horse and buggy because cars are used by sinful people to do ungodly things. More sinners own cars than Christians, they must be evil. And if we allow each other to own them, we may be tempted to get one of those fancy sports cars and be a showman.

This probably could not happen with a horse and buggy, we do want to be safe and put some boundaries up you know.

OK, I have vented enough for now.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by vrblackwell

And if we allow each other to own them, we may be tempted to get one of those fancy sports cars and be a showman.

This probably could not happen with a horse and buggy, we do won't to be safe and put some boundaries up you know.

OK, I have vented enough for now.

Someone call ****** and you two can start over.

[ThePastorsCoach]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

CC1 the absurdity of this whole argument is most of the UPC members have televisions. There is NOT one UPC church in 50 miles that makes a stand against television so the whole thing is mute. It is a non-issue I do not understand the fuss about advertising when the bulk have televisions???? In the Nashville area NOT one UPC church has a stand against television it is a joke. I travel the country and the churches are few and far between that takes a stand against television.

I posted the same thing when I first got on NFCF and WOW - Did I get blasted. I was called a LIAR because I said -these UPC preachers had television! Like Elder Epley - I have traveled the nation the the world and preached for 20 years in UPC churches and MOST of the pastors I preached for - had Television and I preached for the CONSERVATIVES!
I did not have one for 18 years and never had one for the 11 years in the UPC. I know many that will say the do not own one and then they tell me privately that they do - they think it IMPRESSES ME! When I got out - I got basic cable so I could watch FOX NEWS!
As most of you know - TV has LOTS of TRASH on it and if you do not have it - I do not recommend that you get it! I am so glad that I did not raise my children on TV!

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Just a Shepherd

I read the whole book tonight and was impressed with much of what was written. I personally was "on the fence" about the issue, knowing that we would not be using TV to advertise here because it is not cost effective.

After reading the book, I am persuaded that to allow TV advertising would be a bad move for the UPC. There were a couple of thoughts in the book that jumped out at me.

1. The greatest revival was had by the early church by going and personally preaching the gospel to every creature. Today we want greater results with less effort. Televangelism will no doubt further sooth the carnal conscience of those pew sitters who refuse to engage the society they live in by making them believe that they are "reaching the lost" electronically.

I'm not so sure about this really. I think the % of pastors who will use television as an outreach tool will be very small. They might be better served using the internet in my opinion.

2. All modern technology is not the same. One great point was made that if you could push a button and blow up the Internet, it would make about as much sense as blowing up a library. but if you could push the same button and blow up television, what would be lost? Not much. What is meant by "television" is not the screen or circuitry, but rather the entertainment industry, their ungodly philosophy, and the promotion of anti-Christian values or amoral values at best. Watching TV, is watching TV, whether you do it on a big screen, a computer screen, an i pod screen, or a cell phone screen. Just because the method of delivery is different doesn't make it something other than "TV."

This argument makes good sense to me.

Originally Posted by Just A Shepherd

I am personally opposed to allowing televangelism frankly because there are some elements of the UPC that embarrass me. Preachers who are crass and undisciplined in the pulpit will do much to further the negative image that some already want to exploit. Broadcasting services and conferences where holy anointing has been replaced by showmanship, screaming, wild unverifiable tales, and hype will be a big turn off. Showing the world some of our worldly kids at Youth Congress or some of the rock star wannabes that pass for musicians these days will make me want to distance myself from the UPC even further.

This is a good point.

Originally Posted by Just A Shepherd

]I would love to see the pro-TV side do a project like this and present the facts as they see it. Overall all I think this book will have a big influence on the upcoming vote. I just wish I could afford to go to General Conference to be there for it.

I doubt the "pro" side will go to the bother. It's usually the people standing against something who make the loudest noise.

JMHOs.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I am curious what the largest ALJC church ON Television has to say about this bruhaha?