WPF in talks with Philippines UPC

Originally Posted by pelathais

I was going to say... and you've got a great looking blog too. Congrats Brother BlueAugust!

Thanks Bro. pelathais. I haven't attended to that blog for a week now I think... We've been very busy preparing for the coming UPC Philippines General Conference on this third week of February. Bro. Mallory would be the Nightly Speaker. I wonder if his preachings would reflect on some of the past events with WPF... I would love to post in here anything that might come from him verbally...

Bro Mallory, along with Bro. Carl W. Adams, are the most loved UPCI missionaries here in the Philippines...

[Ron]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

The broad brush is never correct to use, such as "all men in the WPF act in an unethical manner." That would be illogical and untrue. However, to question certain actions and decisions that are known to have occured, then attempt to extrapolate from those as to the motivations for such a behavior is altogether different.

To say an entire culture or church group is unethical is wrong. A church which, by the way, has experienced some of the most phenomenal revival in the last 30 years of any nation in the world. To question the ethics or motivations of singular actions is different. That is not anectodal, my friend. That is knowing them that labor among you. Or who lead you.

First off, I have never said that "all" of the Philipino Church is unethical.
I did say and make it a little clearer than I can, from the Ministers that I have
met from the Philippine Church, I have seen a lack of ethics shown.

I said perhaps that is because it is not "Taught" or "Followed."

Yes, they are having a tremendous revival & influx of souls & I pray it continues in a greater measure.

From my observation & interaction with a lot of the Filipino brethren, it "appears" that ethics are not taught or followed.

I apologize if I did not make myself clear.

[embonpoint]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

The broad brush is never correct to use, such as "all men in the WPF act in an unethical manner." That would be illogical and untrue. However, to question certain actions and decisions that are known to have occured, then attempt to extrapolate from those as to the motivations for such a behavior is altogether different.

To say an entire culture or church group is unethical is wrong. A church which, by the way, has experienced some of the most phenomenal revival in the last 30 years of any nation in the world. To question the ethics or motivations of singular actions is different. That is not anectodal, my friend. That is knowing them that labor among you. Or who lead you.

The principles you espouse are correct it is just the even application of them we might have some disagreement over.

As I have stated in other posts I am not part of the WPF and have no intention of joining. That being said my observation from the sideline is that there is a lot of character assassination by hearsay going on daily here. Some people must be developing some pretty big "guns" slingin that big brush the way they do.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by embonpoint

The principles you espouse are correct it is just the even application of them we might have some disagreement over.

As I have stated in other posts I am not part of the WPF and have no intention of joining. That being said my observation from the sideline is that there is a lot of character assassination by hearsay going on daily here. Some people must be developing some pretty big "guns" slingin that big brush the way they do.

Hey...you've got a point there....not sure what it was but you got one

Originally Posted by Ron

Elaborate what?

I have been around Philippino's for twenty years & have seen ministers do anything & everything.

Not everyone is that way of course, but it happens far to frequently for there not to be ethics being taught, or followed.

Suffice it to say, there are a number of licenses that our Church could have had yanked with sufficient grounds.
Our Pastor has taught us to be forgiving.

I can not name names, but it is real.

Aren't these statements too exaggerated Bro. Ron? I know that sometimes the things that you have mentioned can actually happen but I do think that this is not the general atmosphere among UPCI pastors and churches here...

One question though Bro. Ron, have you been a Missionary here in the Philippines under the UPCI? Or is your fellowship with the Filipinos here among independent churches?

Originally Posted by Ron

First off, I have never said that "all" of the Philipino Church is unethical.
I did say and make it a little clearer than I can, from the Ministers that I have
met from the Philippine Church, I have seen a lack of ethics shown.

I said perhaps that is because it is not "Taught" or "Followed."

Yes, they are having a tremendous revival & influx of souls & I pray it continues in a greater measure.

From my observation & interaction with a lot of the Filipino brethren, it "appears" that ethics are not taught or followed.

I apologize if I did not make myself clear.

Actually, among the UPC Philippines Pastors and Ministers, ethics is a very important thing. It is being taught and it is being practice. Our growth is not because of members transferring from one church to another. We won't have real growth in numbers if that's the case. Our harvest consist of souls from mainly the Catholic Church, and Trinitarian Churches as well. We wouldn't have maintain our growth and momentum if it's the other way around. I hope you understand my point of view.

Your apology makes me feel that you have a nice spirit in you Bro. Ron... I hope it's always that way with all of us in this forum... I do apologize also and ask for everybody's understanding if I couldn't make myself clear on some of my posts as English is really not my primary language...

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by embonpoint

The principles you espouse are correct it is just the even application of them we might have some disagreement over.

As I have stated in other posts I am not part of the WPF and have no intention of joining. That being said my observation from the sideline is that there is a lot of character assassination by hearsay going on daily here. Some people must be developing some pretty big "guns" slingin that big brush the way they do.

I agree. A lack of decorum or ethics is never to be winked at, regardless of what side you espouse. The end NEVER justifies the means. God help us to be right during these momentous times.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by blueaugust

Actually, among the UPC Philippines Pastors and Ministers, ethics is a very important thing. It is being taught and it is being practice. Our growth is not because of members transferring from one church to another. We won't have real growth in numbers if that's the case. Our harvest consist of souls from mainly the Catholic Church, and Trinitarian Churches as well. We wouldn't have maintain our growth and momentum if it's the other way around. I hope you understand my point of view.

Your apology makes me feel that you have a nice spirit in you Bro. Ron... I hope it's always that way with all of us in this forum... I do apologize also and ask for everybody's understanding if I couldn't make myself clear on some of my posts as English is really not my primary language...

Hey ADmin how about giving this guy a place to post and then he can kind of give us an update on what's going on in the churches there! Mircles, how many is getting the HG, etc.

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by Rev

Hey ADmin how about giving this guy a place to post and then he can kind of give us an update on what's going on in the churches there! Mircles, how many is getting the HG, etc.

Great idea! We could all use a change of pace!

[Sister Alvear]

May I say something else? I have friends both in UPC and WWF however most Americans would never know what it means to live in a third world country. Most Americans would never understand what it means to live on less than 100 dollars a month..Sometimes not even live just exist...
People from 3rd world countries are just as smart as Americans but most have never had the chance to own a car, own a home or have what most Americans consider the bare necessities of life...So many times when the flashy Americans come staying in hotels, driving rented cars and money to buy all kinds of souvenirs it is a logical fact that they are impressed.

It is not always that they are not loyal but the fact remains they must survive and many Americans thrive on that fact. Offering them a few dollars more than what they have may mean milk for their babies and rice for their tables.
Many of the nationals know nothing about all our problems in the USA and to use them to build our ego is wrong…terribly wrong. It matters not if it is UPC, ACI, WWF or whoever or whatever else.