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  #61  
Old 01-09-2008, 02:01 PM
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IBCrazier2 IBCrazier2 is offline
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Originally Posted by delta soundman View Post
First things first. IMO!!! My first responsibility is to the people of the church. THE PEOPLE!!!! Not the preacher, not the choir director, not the keyboard player, THE PEOPLE!!!!. That being said, I know what you are thinking, "how can you take care of the congregation if you don't take care of the platform first?" The platform needs to understand they are there for the people as well. No be in from of people doing your best American Idol routine. I believe in quality over quantity. If you have good quality the quantity will come too. I do not like feedback (the ringing kind) or roars. If you are a singer or musician and your selfishness is taking away from the quality then we have a problem.

I have been in churches where they had out ear plugs to people who complain. That is crazy!!! Get the sound right and you won't run people out. My services run anywhere from 95db to 102db when things are jumping. It's not piercing or annoying because there is an understanding. The people come first. Trust the soundman to put you out there the best he can. In the end he will be blamed no matter what so let him do the job no strings attached. I can't stand people who think the soundman is their personal knob turner to make them sound like Celine Dion or Yanni on the keyboard. It's church people not a flipping concert. Get your heart where it needs to be and let the soundman handle the rest.
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  #62  
Old 01-09-2008, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by delta soundman View Post
First things first. IMO!!! My first responsibility is to the people of the church. THE PEOPLE!!!! Not the preacher, not the choir director, not the keyboard player, THE PEOPLE!!!!. That being said, I know what you are thinking, "how can you take care of the congregation if you don't take care of the platform first?" The platform needs to understand they are there for the people as well. No be in from of people doing your best American Idol routine. I believe in quality over quantity. If you have good quality the quantity will come too. I do not like feedback (the ringing kind) or roars. If you are a singer or musician and your selfishness is taking away from the quality then we have a problem.
Delta, you sound a bit defensive. Look, the pastor and music dept. members are "people", too, and sound men do have a responsibility to everyone. Your responsibility is dual, to make the sound (of the preacher/speaker/singer/musician) as good as it can possibly be, and in so doing, you please the people by making sure everything is heard in good quality without busting their eardrums or making them endure roars, squeaks, etc.

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I have been in churches where they had out ear plugs to people who complain. That is crazy!!! Get the sound right and you won't run people out.
This isn't always true. There are some people who are simply complainers and are never satisfied. I have been a pastor's daughter for 31 years and a music director for 10 years, and I can tell you that is a fact. Get it right, get it perfect, have it at just the right level, and someone will still probably complain that it is too loud. It's the nature of the bea...er...the people.

Quote:
My services run anywhere from 95db to 102db when things are jumping. It's not piercing or annoying because there is an understanding. The people come first. Trust the soundman to put you out there the best he can. In the end he will be blamed no matter what so let him do the job no strings attached. I can't stand people who think the soundman is their personal knob turner to make them sound like Celine Dion or Yanni on the keyboard. It's church people not a flipping concert. Get your heart where it needs to be and let the soundman handle the rest.
Usually if there is a problem with the singers and musicians not being able to hear themselves, it has to do with a sound man not knowing how to implement monitors. I don't care how low you turn me in the audience (assuming I can still be clearly heard), as long as I can hear myself on the platform. Unless churches go back to purely acoustic music and singing, then it is nearly impossible to hear yourself speak/sing without a proper monitor feeding the sound back to you. I'm sure you understand that.

Our sound man is my personal knob turner. He makes me sound as good as I possibly can, and I appreciate it. There ARE sound men who are difficult to work with, and when they are asked to add effects or turn up the monitor, they huff and puff and display an attitude that presents their own "heart" problem. The truth is, music and sound go hand in hand, they cannot really be separated, so it needs to be teamwork, not "let me do my job and leave me alone."

Of course, if our sound man says, "Please turn the keyboard down", then my response is usually, "I'm sorry" and I turn it down. There can be bad attitudes on either side, OR their can be teamwork amongst departments which makes everything go smoothly.

No, its not a *concert*, but with the technology there is, if the musicians are on point and the singers are good, there's no reason for it to not be on par with the excellence you would find at a concert--without the concert atmosphere.

Sorry if this thread has stressed you out, ds.

My theory is, if one person is consistently complaining, either from the platform, pew or the soundbooth, it may be their problem, BUT if lots of the PEOPLE are complaining, it may truly be too loud, OR if lots of the singers/musicians are complaining, it MAY be the sound man.
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  #63  
Old 01-09-2008, 02:12 PM
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The answer is to get an Aviom system with wireless headsets and let the platform folk mix themselves. Each person has a 12 channel mix. I am still trying to convince my music pastor of this, lol!

This way, you get no monitor volume at all. You will have to get "butt-kickers" for your drummer and bass player.

www.aviom.com
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  #64  
Old 01-09-2008, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Monkeyman View Post
The answer is to get an Aviom system with wireless headsets and let the platform folk mix themselves. Each person has a 12 channel mix. I am still trying to convince my music pastor of this, lol!

This way, you get no monitor volume at all. You will have to get "butt-kickers" for your drummer and bass player.
That would be great!!!! I would love it if we had that capability at our church. ...what are the butt-kickers?
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"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

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  #65  
Old 01-09-2008, 02:18 PM
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A lot of mid-large churches are now using these, and every major christian artist uses them as well at their concerts. it so easy, you plug in 1 cat 5 cable (ethernet)between the stage and soundroom, and viola, instant personal monitor mixing!!!
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  #66  
Old 01-09-2008, 02:20 PM
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Butt-kickers are platforms embeded with low end bass that the musician sits on when he/she plays. If you are wearing earpieces, you don't have the "room" bass sound so there is no low-end and you lose your "groove". The "butt-kicker" allows the musician to feel the low end and continue to stay in the pocket of the song.
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  #67  
Old 01-09-2008, 05:58 PM
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This is the mrs ibcrazier,
I have been in the platform side and the soundbooth side or media
when it all comes down to it the main and only reason that there are attitudes is because both sides have to be prayed through enough outside of the regular services....to be able to focus on the service and be a minstry during the service....NOT fighting with each other.


When this happens and everyone is submissive and has a humble heart there will be peace in the ranks.

If the music and the sound both realize they need each other then all would be well. People who are BIG attitudes should be set down for a while so thye can be mistered to.

****ALL THE ABOVE COMMENTS AND COMENTARY IS NOT A REFLECTION OF THE MR. IBCRAZIER ******
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  #68  
Old 01-09-2008, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Monkeyman View Post
Butt-kickers are platforms embeded with low end bass that the musician sits on when he/she plays. If you are wearing earpieces, you don't have the "room" bass sound so there is no low-end and you lose your "groove". The "butt-kicker" allows the musician to feel the low end and continue to stay in the pocket of the song.
And I thought....
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  #69  
Old 01-09-2008, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBCrazier2 View Post
This is the mrs ibcrazier,
I have been in the platform side and the soundbooth side or media
when it all comes down to it the main and only reason that there are attitudes is because both sides have to be prayed through enough outside of the regular services....to be able to focus on the service and be a minstry during the service....NOT fighting with each other.
I agree with that. That's just true in general...when the focus is on the service as a whole, and not on "my little kingdom", then things will simply go better. However, there have been times when I have been prayed up and STILL really aggravated at the sound guy simply because he was frustrating. Maybe HE wasn't prayed up. LOL!!!


Quote:
People who are BIG attitudes should be set down for a while so thye can be mistered to.
I totally agree...I'm just pointing out that BIG attitudes can come from the sound booth just as much as the platform.
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone


"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."

--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
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  #70  
Old 01-09-2008, 11:53 PM
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The more I think about it ... the more the Church of Christ may have something here!!
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