For those who want to know...RULES at my church!

[The Mrs]

Originally Posted by Amos

Mrs......

I realize that it will be very easy for you to take this personally.

I am not defending any particular practice of the pastor in question.

I am just saying that many are judging and making some oretty strong statements about the man based totally on the recollections of those who walked away from the church.

I have lived long enough to know that many times the perspectives of different people looking at the same event can be very different.

We are just getting one side here.

Also, it is a fact that people who "backslide" are very, very inclined to have extremely negative things to say about the church in order to vindicate their own actions.

That is human nature.

I understand your caution regarding my personal interests in this, but I think I'm far enough away from it now, that I can look at it objectively. If you have read any of my posts in this thread you will see that I did not condemn the man. I said he is one of the kindest, gentlest, wisest men I know...but that doesn't make these practices right.

I have even expressed the reasons why I think they were instituted. Mostly due to fear-based thinking (as opposed to faith-based thinking). Most of these practices might have been based on fairly good principles to live by but went way overboard into control issues.

I just don't think there is any defence of that. Even if this pastor were here, what do you think he could say to defend himself?




And I find this statement from you ironic, seeing as how you just got done doing the same thing...(crucify and discredit the poster) calling them backsliders.

Originally Posted by Amos

And furthermore, anyone who has the temerity to defend a pastor on this forum needs to be extremely cautious in his wording, because the barracudas will school around you and pick at any slight point of inconsistency in order to crucify and discredit the poster.

Also...the views of 4 were not different. They were all the same.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Who is that you are calling a backslider Amos? Many have posted of some pretty disturbing things on this thread Amos, myself included.

Which of these odd rules or standards do YOU see from the other side of the coin.

Is it perhaps the one of having to have pastoral approval to buy a new car or another one....please do tell us which of these that you can see as anything any sane pastor should be bridling his saints with?

Frankly, I have a very hard time believing that some of those things were any sort of official "rule."

Things can get blown out of shape pretty easily.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by The Mrs

I understand your caution regarding my personal interests in this, but I think I'm far enough away from it now, that I can look at it objectively. If you have read any of my posts in this thread you will see that I did not condemn the man. I said he is one of the kindest, gentlest, wisest men I know...but that doesn't make these practices right.

I have even expressed the reasons why I think they were instituted. Mostly due to fear-based thinking (as opposed to faith-based thinking). Most of these practices might have been based on fairly good principles to live by but went way overboard into control issues.

I just don't think there is any defence of that. Even if this pastor were here, what do you think he could say to defend himself?




And I find this statement from you ironic, seeing as how you just got done doing the same thing...(crucify and discredit the poster) calling them backsliders.



Also...the views of 4 were not different. They were all the same.

I'd say most Apostolics would agree that when folks quit church and drop their consecrations, and begin building again that which they destroyed, they backslid.

That is no crucifixion, just fact.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Amos

Frankly, I have a very hard time believing that some of those things were any sort of official "rule."

Things can get blown out of shape pretty easily.

Brother I was in the smae type of church that Sis ST was in. I have posted some of the rules we had to contend with. let me assure they were rules that caused you to be in trouble if you did not walk in them.

Official...were they written down in a rule book? No but they were spoke of from the pulpit as things to do or not do if you want to be saved.

I'd be happy to post the real name of my old pastor in Illinois and one in Florida..and my real name too. You can check it out for yourself friend...this kind of stupid stuff happens in some churches.

I am glad for you Amos, that you have a hard time believing it. You are indeed fortunate to have been around Pentecost for very long and missed seeing it.

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by Thad

Do you know this to be the case in the situations being discussed here?
I don't believe these people are wallowing in self pity. It takes time to heal from such spiritually impacting things. I think it would be prudent to show compassion where it is merited.
when saints internalize that they cannot question spiritual leadership at the risk of damning their soul, then obviously abuses are bound to happen . I don't think this level of extremity is wide spread but i believe we should acknowledge that it can at least happen AND i know for a fact that it has.

Go and read what I posted.I am sick of it always being Upc,Upc,UPc.I like the church I go to.The pastor belongs to the UPC.It is not a cult.Not all churches fit the situation and it seems its the number one org to get the names called against it.Adults usually if they are normal have feet and usually if they are not handicapped those feet can find their way to the car and drive themselves home and get out a phone book and find another church that teaches truth.Just because someone has wronged you does not mean that you sit at home and suffer even more.You have to get up.It also does not mean you have to leave the truth about basic salvation.You can find a church that is Spirit filled and baptizes in Jesus name.Regardless of whatever situation has happened to any of us we have to go on and be saved.That is what I am getting at.I am not getting onto the lady who first posted the thread.If you will go back and read I was posting to you about the lady who allowed her son to be taken out and beaten by a pastor and some men.I am sure social services would see that differently than she does.For one thing why even open the door or darken the door of such a place again? Its about being mature and taking responsibility.If you posted it as TIC and a scenario then take what I posted in the same manner.Don't read anymore into it.I meant no more than I posted.

[Amos]

Folks, it has been fun, but I am getting ready to head out for a "Fellowship."

I wish I had thought to make it mandatory so the crowd might have been better.

I must go and spend some time cementing my hold on the brainwashed minions that call me pastor....Muuuhahahahahahahaaaa(evil laughter).

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Amos

Folks, it has been fun, but I am getting ready to head out for a "Fellowship."

I wish I had thought to make it mandatory so the crowd might have been better.

I must go and spend some time cementing my hold on the brainwashed minions that call me pastor....Muuuhahahahahahahaaaa(evil laughter).

Have a good time Amos! BTW all our services were mandatory. If you were not there, someone was dispatched to your house, during service.

[nahkoe]

15 more minutes of work and I'm heading off to get my littles and go prepare for a fellowship too. It's also not mandatory, but who'd pass up freezing and chattering teeth to sit on scratchy hay and then stand in front of a bonfire roasting nasty marshmallows and hot dogs? (he looks kind of cold..right?)

Originally Posted by Amos

Folks, it has been fun, but I am getting ready to head out for a "Fellowship."

I wish I had thought to make it mandatory so the crowd might have been better.

I must go and spend some time cementing my hold on the brainwashed minions that call me pastor....Muuuhahahahahahahaaaa(evil laughter).

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

It's sad that some Op's see this scripture and interpret it as "foolish preaching"

In a church just down the road from you Trouvere, I saw the pastor call a sister to come stand befor ethe pulpit and force her to take her hair down to reveal what she had in her hair.

This sister was so embarrased.

The preacher had heard that sister was putting something up inside her hair to fix it up.

(I think you sister's called this a rat or something like that)

She was chastised and rebuked before the entire congregation.

I learned later when this pastor got home he was informed by his wife and daughters that they too used these accesories in fixing their hair.

Nothing more was ever said to the congregation about this subject.

No public apology made to this sister.

This same pastor made a brand new convert i had won shave his short beard.

This was an afican american who was in the navy with me.

Some african americans have a serious problem with shaving as ingrown wiskers get infected.

This brother explained this and was told he had to shave anyway. To trust God and it would be OK.

He being young and dumb and willing to please the man of God, shaved.

He shaved against the orders of his Navy Dr. His face broke out in mess of infected ingrown hairs.

I don't understand why he did not continue long with us.

Spiriual authoritarian abuse occurs among us. It is sad but true.

Pretty sure you know the church Trouvere. Pastor BWA passed away 5 years ago but Jr is still there I believe.

BTW when I posted to Timmy it was in sarcasim.Just thought you should know.lol....but thought I would add that there are Seven other churchs plus more thats just the seven I counted that teach Jesus Name Baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost in our city.We will take them.Send them over.Not only are the city churches faring well but the parking lot where I go is to the road on Sundays.One of the other UPC churches here pastored by a brother who came up in Brother Coles church in Beaumont,Texas is building a brand new church building.They are doing well also.There is a inner city work, a spainish work,a work at the beach in Navarre,a work near the Navy base that is up and doing very well also.No one has to take abuse.

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

15 more minutes of work and I'm heading off to get my littles and go prepare for a fellowship too. It's also not mandatory, but who'd pass up freezing and chattering teeth to sit on scratchy hay and then stand in front of a bonfire roasting nasty marshmallows and hot dogs? (he looks kind of cold..right?)

I am so jealous...lol...nah just got back from a luncheon.Have fun.