Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

[Newman]

Originally Posted by Nina

Newman and Christopher,

What else could Texas have done?
At what point did they err.

Nina

1. Educated the community about the laws Texas changed and how specific indivuals would be prosecuted if underage marriages occurred.

2. Not let their passions become inflamed so that reason and civil rights were trampled and innocent children caught in the crossfire.

3. Not gone onto ranch with 700 government agents (many of them armed and dangerous) under guise of distress phone call that was not timely responded to if had been of any real concern.

4. Not taken young children and babies from their mothers or at the very least given them back as soon as they recognized that:

a. there were no current child brides
b. there were no signs of physical or emotional abuse
c. Sarah was obvious hoax
d. the sect was not violent nor irrational

There are a total of 463 FLDS children - 250 females, 213 males - in state custody in Texas. Here is a breakdown of that count:
* 0-2: 101, 49 females, 52 males
* 3-5: 99, 46 females, 53 males
* 6-9: 131, 68 females, 63 males
* 10-13: 62, 34 females, 28 males
* 14-17: 42, 27 females, 15 males
* Disputed age: 26 females, now classified as 17 or younger.
* Two boys who turned 18 while in state custody also have voluntarily chosen to stay with younger boys.

That is for starters....

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Newman

Hahaha Were you surprised to find me defending polygamists given my reputation as a feminist among some on this forum?

LOL!

Myself - I was not surprised, not because of the polygamy, but because everyone knows having large families is an intensly liberating thing!

[Sister Alvear]

Stephen...Stephen...

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Stephen...Stephen...

[Sister Alvear]

Stephen...I raised 11 kids...I have my own cult...ha...

[Baron1710]

Originally Posted by Newman

Hahaha Were you surprised to find me defending polygamists given my reputation as a feminist among some on this forum?

This reminds me of a Supreme Court History class I had with Jay Sekulow. When we were going through the Reynolds opinion (Polygamy case), I took the position that the court was wrong in how it came to its conclusion, from that day forward Jay has called me "au contraire". One night he took the class to dinner and he asked my wife how she felt about my position on polygamy. Whenever he needed someone for the unpopular side position on an opinion he always looked my way, which forced me to keep up on all my reading.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Stephen...I raised 11 kids...I have my own cult...ha...

That's right, they say it takes a villiage...

[Newman]

This case reeks....

Pressing On- Do you really want Texas deciding which religous beliefs are ok to teach your children?

www.DallasNews.com

Last year, lawmakers sank an extra $91 million into child welfare so that, among other things, CPS could hire 372 more conservatorship workers.

“You never catch up. It’s a perpetuating problem,” Ms. McClure said.

.....

CPS said it had to remove 463 children from the ranch owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints because the sect had a “pervasive” practice of arranging “spiritual marriages” between underage girls and older men, who are encouraged to have multiple wives. Sect leaders, the children’s mothers and their court-appointed lawyers have accused the state of overstepping its authority.

.....

Because of the added burdens, Mr. Crimmins said CPS is preparing to ask state leaders for more money.

A leading lobbyist for foster-care contractors said that while CPS faces a daunting challenge in moving the sect children’s cases through the courts, it caught at least one break.

The raid came as the state’s foster child population dropped, to about 17,800, said Nancy Holman, head of the Texas Alliance of Child & Family Services. That is more than 1,000 below budgeted levels. "

Wow! What a coincidence!

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Newman

This case reeks....

Pressing On- Do you really want Texas deciding which religous beliefs are ok to teach your children?

From Dallasnews.com

Last year, lawmakers sank an extra $91 million into child welfare so that, among other things, CPS could hire 372 more conservatorship workers.

“You never catch up. It’s a perpetuating problem,” Ms. McClure said.

.....

CPS said it had to remove 463 children from the ranch owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints because the sect had a “pervasive” practice of arranging “spiritual marriages” between underage girls and older men, who are encouraged to have multiple wives. Sect leaders, the children’s mothers and their court-appointed lawyers have accused the state of overstepping its authority.

.....

Because of the added burdens, Mr. Crimmins said CPS is preparing to ask state leaders for more money.

A leading lobbyist for foster-care contractors said that while CPS faces a daunting challenge in moving the sect children’s cases through the courts, it caught at least one break.

The raid came as the state’s foster child population dropped, to about 17,800, said Nancy Holman, head of the Texas Alliance of Child & Family Services. That is more than 1,000 below budgeted levels. "

Wow! What a coincidence!

The crux of the issue still remains, Newman. We will have to decide what to do with it. I'm against what this sect practices. I've already quoted the law in Texas.

CPS said it had to remove 463 children from the ranch owned by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints because the sect had a “pervasive” practice of arranging “spiritual marriages” between underage girls and older men, who are encouraged to have multiple wives.

We have a Penal Code in Texas as do other states. They are not abiding by that regardless of their religious affiliation.

"Religion appears to play little or no role in the allegations about practices at the Eldorado ranch. No religious belief held by an adult justifies any kind of child abuse. No religious belief allows an adult to have sex with an underage girl. One fear is that any children that you don't remove will be themselves abused, and the other fear is that any children you don't remove will be whisked out of the state, which both puts them at risk potentially and impedes an investigation" " Scott McCown, a former district judge.

As I stated before, perhaps we can get polygamy as an acceptable option in this country and then we can begin marrying our pets.

[Newman]

The article continued....

"Former state District Judge Scott McCown, who handled hundreds of child-abuse cases while on the bench in Travis County, said the polygamist case “is going to put a big strain on an already strained system.”

“It’s kind of like asking in the midst of [Hurricane] Katrina whether a rain shower in New Orleans would be a problem,” said Mr. McCown, head of the Center for Public Policy Priorities, a progressive think tank.

“It’s no problem because it’s already a disaster,” he said."

Incidently, the Dallas Newspaper also reported incidently that home prices have fallen by 4% perhaps signalling tough times ahead for Texas (which makes funds tighter as more families invariably fall into the system).

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Do those that were in favor of removing all these children have any kind of idea what lies ahead for these kids? Or the kind of abused kids they may end up with?

Was the risk of harm with their parents truly greater than the risk of harm in a system compared to the Katrina Storm by one of the judges?

Shakes head in sorrow and walks away...