Billy Graham

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

Indeed it does.

You have a bible, written by those splitting hell wide open according to you. How brilliant is that?

Btw, since the gates of hell prevailing against His Church is actually in reference to physical resurrection, and not a church chain of succession, you are in luck DB,(well, maybe not) Instead of showing how you, and the 6 or 7 others you have holding hands in the streets of glory(only NT people having lived in the last max of 100 years of nearly a 2000 year apostasy) you can go ahead and openly admit you don’t even believe in a future physical bodily resurrection, so you're hung out to dry either way, son.

But then Aquilla, don’t you believe in Universalism, and have everybody that ever took a breathe going to heaven, no matter how bad they were, somehow getting a 2nd chance to hear and believe the gospel when they’re physically dead?

Some of you guys’ beliefs, beats all I ever stepped in, walking through the chicken coop.

DB, how is it that God would use unsave hell bound in the carpool lane people, to translate his only written words of everlasting life since the New Covenant began? All these translations, every last one, by everyone going straight to hell, how can we trust any of it...Talk about lack of common sense.

How about you break down exactly what takes place at Jesus name baptism for the reader, according to the scriptures, WHO says what, (book, chapter, verse)so we can better understand how only your 7 or 8 have genuinely made it through the pearly gates.

So then, you're a trinitarian? Catholic or Protestant?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Wow, Esaias and I are now Sean? Why? Because we disagreed you? Is that the extent of our fellowship, as long as we are in lock step with your "opinions" concerning the Bible we are ...good? My brother, David Wilkerson was a hypocrite from his own mouth. He was also a false prophet (read The Vision). The greatest preacher of the 20th century? David Wilkerson preached that Paul was a reprobate, and includes himself as having the same issue. David Wilkerson clearly misinterpreted Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 9:27. Paul wasn't saying that he was a reprobate. Paul was saying that he kept his body under subjection that after he taught the church how to live he wouldn't fall himself. That's simple cornbread preaching. David Wilkerson couldn't get that straight.

I don't have to look far for an answer as to why we continue in our sins. I look into my own heart. More and more I think of the time that I have to stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Every day of my life now I think of it. When I have to stand before my Jesus and look into his loving eyes, when I have to give an account of everything I've preached and I go over the years that I've preached things to others and demanded things of people I NEVER KEPT MYSELF I know that other than the grace of God and the merciful. I couldn't stand before him and Paul knew that too. He said lest having preached to others I myself become a castaway. In other words, I stand before Jesus and I DIDN'T LIVE WHAT i PREACHED [David Wilkerson, Shall We Continue In Sin]



All I can respond to this is...really?



Oh, that really doesn't change much, whether he is "THE" greatest testimony or one of the many greatest testimonies of the 20th century. You still are telling us the indicator of salvation is solely based on works alone. Instead of Bible soteriology.




David Moses Berg believed he had the Holy Ghost. Jim Jones as a little boy attended UPCI Sunday school. What I'm posting is this, what you believe to be a Holy Ghost filled individual and what God considers a Holy Ghost individual is two different things. While all these individuals believed they had the Holy Ghost didn't negate the need of the correct soteriology. To think it does is throwing the Bible out the window. Seriously?



So, the flip side of that is if Esaias and I were more Milquetoast about salvation then God would give us more mercy? Let me ask you this question, can a person have salvation without baptism, Jesus name or titles, and without speaking in tongues? Don't get upset and start calling me names, I'm just asking you a question.



Really? So soteriology is a mystery?



Bro, if God made New Testament as cryptic as I think you are alluding to, then we are all in trouble.



Again, the flip side of this, would be that if we keep our mouths shut and have you as our pastor than we will be assured heaven? I'm sorry, but you obviously don't consider what you are posting right now. Because if we don't agree with your belief system we are the bad guys, and you are good because you make nothing a doctrinal issue? You do only when you see something wrong with the two Pentecostal Organizations AoG or UPC? Just trying to understand where you are coming from. Because I can see a hair pulling contest brewing here. I really don't want you and I to go there.



Every Catholic will tell you that they do the same. Every Presbyterian or Mormon will emphatically tell you they do the same. When Moses David Berg was alive he would with full strength tell you the same. Bro, Jesus said the way to eternal life was narrow, and the opening slightly cracked, the broadway leads to total destruction and many enter in. Do the math, the lion share loses big time. Acts 2:38 is a must, not just an option.



Bro, so you think they were in error? Your words not mine. So how much error can one be in and still make heaven their home? I'm sorry, we can't have our cake and eat it too. There is only one Truth, If I don't have it, I need to do my utmost to find it. I can't blame you, I can't blame anyone. I will only blame myself. I can't be guilted into truth,or berated into truth, or loved into truth. I need to want and need to find the opening in the door of the sheepfold which is the Jesus Christ. Paul warned us that there was another Christ, and another spirit and another Gospel. Galatians 1:6-9 2 Corinthians 11:4.




Bro, Biblical New Testament soteriology isn't rocket science.




I appreciate your concern and love for me. Thank you.

The Bible is a library of books, which denominations have adjusted to fit their doctrinal stance. They all have a Jesus which doesn't appear in the Bible. Jesus wasn't inclusive of all the different Christian beliefs, and dogmas. The Apostle Paul fought against Judaizers and Kabbalist Gnostics. Both groups which have strongholds in Churchanity. We aren't faith alone, and we aren't works alone salvation. We are doctrine based Apostolics, and must be vigilant to be sighted guides. The Christian walk isn't a forum where we can flippantly debate these things. Our own necks are on the line, so I just can't salute everything that is flown up the flag.

I long for the day when UPC ministers, broken before God, humbly make the same confession that David Wilkerson was man enough to make, the one you lambast him for! You still marginalize genuine fruit of the Spirit by comparing it to some pseudo-experience some cult leader once claims to have had. Thankfully, I have been around long enough to know the majority of our ministers are not as blind as you appear to be on this issue. Brother, I walked with God for 12 yeas before I decided to be re-baptized. What God did in my life, and what I saw him do in the circles I mingled in during those years was just as real and holy as anything I've seen him do since I was rebaptized in 1992. You've come too late to haughtily try to convince me otherwise. I serve the same God now as I did back then. If I am a blessing at all to the UPCI, most of the credit goes to those godly, anointed AG minsters who discipled me. My plea to you is, stop glorying in "truth" and start glorying in the cross.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by consapente89

Lonesome Dove was not written by the good Elder!

Well, what was I thinking? I never read either one. I got them confused. Houston, never mind me and my attempts at wit.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by JamesGlen

Briefly, I forgot to mention, speaking of red headed step children...E.B., Is it true, out of 100’s of billions of children that have lived and died young, that there will be none of those children inheriting eternal life, asside from the ones that have obeyed your infallible doctrine, having read and understood the obvious 3 step position to a “T”, that you embrace, spelled out so easily, and understood, in the scriptures?

Please, do explain from the scriptures...

You're very emotional, aren't you?

[Esaias]

The next post anyone makes on this thread will be the 666th post. Illuminati Confirmed. Tread carefully!

[votivesoul]

"When you stare into the abyss, the abyss stares into you." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

How's that for 666?

[RachelRose]

Originally Posted by LongBeachCA

I always liked Billy as well. I can not judge and say anything about no one but myself. But once upon a time, the UPC churches preached the TV would send us to hell. And going to the MOVIES would to. And ROCK MUSIC would to. BOWLING ALLEYS SKATING RINKS I have heard it all in my childhood. And look at how things have changed, NOW you can wear RINGS have TV"S and BEARDS now. THE UPCI keeps changing with time. I believe one day, they are going to look like everyone else in the TRINITY WORLD and it won't be long. I see where women in high positions are wearing skirts above the KNEES even ministers wives. I was looking at a video and pics of a FAMOUS MINSTER who pastors a church and he is a MAJOR SINGER and has a big church and his 1st LADY was putting pics on the internet of her in a 2 PIECE BATHING suit with the TOP off. I could not believe what I was seeing. And this minister and singer is famous in the circles of pentecost , he was at the MS CAMP MEETING in the MOVIE "BORAT". I am not even going to put his initials on here.

But he thought that he was going to SUE BOART MOVIE MAKER SASCHA BARON COHEN for making that movie at the MS CAMP MEETING and so did my mom's pastor who was the PRESB of MS district at the time, they all thought they were going to SUE MR CHOEN for TRICKING them. And no one not one pastor had any DISCERNMENT about the actions of this man, Any idiot can see he was FAKING and if you listen to the words he was saying you can easily put 2 & 2 together to figure out this guy is making a FOOL and Mockery out of these PEOPLE. But the church failed and could not SUE because SASHA BARON COHEN had them sign a document that kept them from taking any legal action. But the thing that gets me NOT ONE MINISTER THERE not even my MOM"S. PASTOR who claims to have discernment could pick up on what this guy was doing. It is a funny movie to watch.

So with TIME I believe that the church UPCI standards have changed to the point where BIG NAME women are painting their faces for CD'S and VIDEOS that are going out into the world and they are going on TBN and having MAKEUP for TV used. YET they preach against using makeup. They are wearing FRENCH MANICURES which I don't see anything wrong with that one. But LIPSTICK RUGE EYELINER BROW LINER BASE EYE PAINT. Either you are or you ain't HOLINESS there is no in-between. But don't preach to people and then go get on TBN or shoot a MAJOR PROFESSIONAL VIDEO and PAINT yourself up. That is just wrong. SLITS in the back and front of their SKIRTS 1/2 way up from the kNEE , People are watching APOSTOLIC PENTECOSTALS very CLOSELY. NOW that the MANGUNS have went on TV they are going to know more about the UPCI than ever before. TBN is a HUGE OUTLET it's one of the LARGEST if not the LARGEST Broadcast in the world. Little by little they keep changing letting more and more things creep in. You cannot CHANGE and expect the world to respect you. THEY WON"T respect you.

I sat in more services I can possibly count were GA Mangun said the trinity system will be the gateway for the Pope to bring all the churches together. Now I see his son Antony appearing on TBN. What a mess.

[RachelRose]

Originally Posted by consapente89

Apostolics don't watch movies.




Wait....your theology changed because of a movie?????

Wait....they do watch TV. I saw AM on TBN the other day. That aside, I need to find more information about "The Shack." I have heard so much about it. What is it in 20 words or less?

[Evang.Benincasa]

I think some people have problems that are way bigger than watching television.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I long for the day when UPC ministers, broken before God, humbly make the same confession that David Wilkerson was man enough to make, the one you lambast him for! You still marginalize genuine fruit of the Spirit by comparing it to some pseudo-experience some cult leader once claims to have had. Thankfully, I have been around long enough to know the majority of our ministers are not as blind as you appear to be on this issue. Brother, I walked with God for 12 yeas before I decided to be re-baptized. What God did in my life, and what I saw him do in the circles I mingled in during those years was just as real and holy as anything I've seen him do since I was rebaptized in 1992. You've come too late to haughtily try to convince me otherwise. I serve the same God now as I did back then. If I am a blessing at all to the UPCI, most of the credit goes to those godly, anointed AG minsters who discipled me. My plea to you is, stop glorying in "truth" and start glorying in the cross.

Which cross? The Catholic Cross? The Jehovah Witness Stake? The Baptist Cross? Psalm 11:3 If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do? 1 Peter 4:17-18 God has already begun judging his own people. And if his judgment begins with us, imagine how terrible it will be for those who refuse to obey his message. The Scriptures say, (Proverbs 11:31 LXX) "If good people barely escape, what will happen to sinners and to others who don't respect God?"

Seriously my brother, there is no way around it, David Wilkerson died in religious error. Your friends who are AoG need your prayers and teaching to turn them around. That's all I can say to you. Don't take offense to my words but understand that Churchanity's compromise just sends to people to a devil's grave. To glory in the Cross, is to turn the blind guides around, and saved the blind who follow them.

The Lord bless you and your family in Jesus name.