Hmm, to that I would say that there are more than one probability for this common misunderstanding, and understanding this is central to one's walk. My theories run to gifts being distributed unevenly, listening to men instead of Spirit, not allowing for other men to listen to Spirit, not recognizing varying conditions that prolly explain the apparent contradiction, etc.
Our desire for an earthly king, and therefore other forms of Law--boards, codes, whathaveyou, that attempt to homogenize Spirit, and enforce uniformity, just make me want to...talk like Kirk...
Ah, yes, apparent contradictions. Just as you can reconcile apparent contradictions in the Bible, you can always reconcile apparent contradictions in what the "Spirit" has "taught" people.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I would agree, with the understanding that this does not mean that these contradictions will necessarily dissolve, but be understood. To use a secular parable, Eskimos and Arabs can argue all day long about a proper diet; they are never going to agree until it's understood that one lives in snow, and the other in sand.
Although I can hear the lawyers' screams already, there are parallels in spirit.
I would agree, with the understanding that this does not mean that these contradictions will necessarily dissolve, but be understood. To use a secular parable, Eskimos and Arabs can argue all day long about a proper diet; they are never going to agree until it's understood that one lives in snow, and the other in sand.
Although I can hear the lawyers' screams already, there are parallels in spirit.
A parallel might be that many or most? "Christians" are apparently sceered of hell? and Armageddon? Aren't we told that these are what we should not fear?
A parallel might be that many or most? "Christians" are apparently sceered of hell? and Armageddon? Aren't we told that these are what we should not fear?
But you can hardly blame them. Depending on which sect you are in, you may be told you will have to go through the tribulation -- terrible suffering, and persecution for your faith. You might be martyred, horribly. You may have to fight in the Battle of Armageddon. Even if you are on the winning side, it doesn't sound like fun.
As for hell, of course you shouldn't be afraid of that, if you know you won't be going there. Trouble is, those who are paying attention know that they just might end up there, for any number of possible reasons. They are saved by faith, right? Well, too many believers look around and see that faith is also what heals them of sickness -- but guess what? It doesn't always work! They have faith, or think they do, which is their evidence of things not seen, and the substance of things (such as healing) hoped for. When they don't see what they hoped for, there might be a perfectly reasonable explanation: not enough faith, wasn't God's will, hidden sin, didn't follow the instructions correctly.
So, if that object of faith is not always obtained, why should faith-based salvation be any different? And, unlike healing where we find out here in this life if it "worked", the big problem with salvation is you won't know until it is too late.
And then, of course, Jesus said He would send many believers away, those who will cry "Lord, Lord! Didn't we....?" He'll say He never knew them. They thought they "got it". They did wonderful things in Jesus' name. They called Him "Lord"! But nope. Didn't do enough for Jesus. Didn't obey Him (enough). They're the goats, who didn't feed the hungry or give a drink to the thirsty, or take in strangers, or visit prisoners.
The way to life is narrow, and few find it.
Yes, the ones who are paying attention may have good reason to fear hell. IMO.
(If you believe in hell, that is. I'm not afraid of hell, just for the record. )
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
But you can hardly blame them. Depending on which sect you are in, you may be told you will have to go through the tribulation -- terrible suffering, and persecution for your faith. You might be martyred, horribly. You may have to fight in the Battle of Armageddon. Even if you are on the winning side, it doesn't sound like fun.
This demonstrates to me the folly of religion, and Scripture tells us that the bolded is where we err. We all will go through "The Tribulation," and the battle of Armageddon, no believer excepted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
As for hell, of course you shouldn't be afraid of that, if you know you won't be going there. Trouble is, those who are paying attention know that they just might end up there, for any number of possible reasons. They are saved by faith, right? Well, too many believers look around and see that faith is also what heals them of sickness -- but guess what? It doesn't always work! They have faith, or think they do, which is their evidence of things not seen, and the substance of things (such as healing) hoped for. When they don't see what they hoped for, there might be a perfectly reasonable explanation: not enough faith, wasn't God's will, hidden sin, didn't follow the instructions correctly.
Not any number of reasons; only one reason, not accepting Grace, by faith. The bolded here is obviously at odds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
So, if that object of faith is not always obtained, why should faith-based salvation be any different? And, unlike healing where we find out here in this life if it "worked", the big problem with salvation is you won't know until it is too late.
If the bolded here is a problem for (you), let me put your mind at ease, as Christ has done for me--a person in this position is lost, and has not accepted Grace, and does not understand faith. Go ye, and review "Mormons was the correct answer," South Park, 2009. I think it was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
And then, of course, Jesus said He would send many believers away, those who will cry "Lord, Lord! Didn't we....?" He'll say He never knew them. They thought they "got it". They did wonderful things in Jesus' name. They called Him "Lord"! But nope. Didn't do enough for Jesus. Didn't obey Him (enough). They're the goats, who didn't feed the hungry or give a drink to the thirsty, or take in strangers, or visit prisoners.
The way to life is narrow, and few find it.
Ya, and it consists almost entirely (9/10ths) of "Love Your Neighbor..."
a real tuffy. How religious must one get to love one's neighbor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
Yes, the ones who are paying attention may have good reason to fear hell. IMO.
Then, to those who are "paying attention..." Stop that, mmmkay? It's bad. Pay attention to the other thing, the one you're ignoring, that will save you, and be your evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmy
(If you believe in hell, that is. I'm not afraid of hell, just for the record. )
Well, I only believe in God. I know hell exists, which you intimate here you may not. I am afraid of hell in that sense.
This demonstrates to me the folly of religion, and Scripture tells us that the bolded is where we err. We all will go through "The Tribulation," and the battle of Armageddon, no believer excepted.
Not any number of reasons; only one reason, not accepting Grace, by faith. The bolded here is obviously at odds.
If the bolded here is a problem for (you), let me put your mind at ease, as Christ has done for me--a person in this position is lost, and has not accepted Grace, and does not understand faith. Go ye, and review "Mormons was the correct answer," South Park, 2009. I think it was.
Ya, and it consists almost entirely (9/10ths) of "Love Your Neighbor..."
a real tuffy. How religious must one get to love one's neighbor?
Then, to those who are "paying attention..." Stop that, mmmkay? It's bad. Pay attention to the other thing, the one you're ignoring, that will save you, and be your evidence.
Well, I only believe in God. I know hell exists, which you intimate here you may not. I am afraid of hell in that sense.
That South Park episode is awesome! Its point with the Mormon thing, of course, is that it is a guess. Might as well be Mormons that end up being right, or who knows, could be Muslims, or Jews, or United Pentecostals.
You make an excellent point about loving your neighbor. Pretty much every civilization, regardless of religion most of the people follow, has that as a basic tenet. Perhaps as an unspoken rule, or perhaps in their written code (in one form or another). It wasn't first articulated by Jesus, nor by Moses.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Hmm, I get a different point from that episode, though I guess a similar one, ie "That is irrelevant." One's religion, that is.
"...Might as well be Mormons that end up being right, or who knows, could be Muslims, or Jews, or United Pentecostals."
"All have sinned, and come short..." pick one, or none. They are irrelevant.
"The same measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Well, most of my comments are relevant to other AFFers, who do believe that there is an afterlife for each human, and it will be either in heaven (happy) or hell (horrible) and will be forever, and what the believe (or do) in this life determines which one it will be.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Well, most of my comments are relevant to other AFFers, who do believe that there is an afterlife for each human, and it will be either in heaven (happy) or hell (horrible) and will be forever, and what the believe (or do) in this life determines which one it will be.
Lol, "Afterlife" to me assumes one has a life now, lol.
Scripture clearly indicates that a human's eternity will be spent on earth, and that Heaven and Hell are not places? And don't doubt that I am waiting also.
I think your comments are quite relevant--I do find religion irrelevant tho.
)
Linear Mode
