I can tell you this -- not everyone on the General Council OR in the various committees/councils will be giving up their license in the UPCI. At least, not any time now. Take it for what it's worth, but I am absolutely certain about this.
Of course not...not NOW. There is a process that has to be carried out, and it can only be done in this order: If your church is affiliated, a sitting UPC pastor has to be the one to initiate the disaffiliation. A non-UPC pastor cannot pastor an affiliated church. So the only ones that are going to turn their cards in right away are the ones whose churches were never affiliated or at some point previously decided to disaffiliate. The bylaws require that the DS and presbyter be notified and be allowed to present the org's perspective at the duly called meeting. The church hears both arguments and then votes in or out. So to turn in their cards prematurely would be to automatically lose their pastorate. I know a guy who is one of the listed 50 elders who is presently disaffiliating his church and claims that he is going to keep his UPCI license. Not going to happen. As soon as the church completes the disaffiliation process, he will be turning in his card. I have NO doubt about that. Dual membership may be possible but for most it will not be practical. Whose going to be willing to pay dues to both organizations at the same time? No, they're going to see how things shake out, complete the disaffiliation process, and then turn in their cards or stop paying their dues or have a card-burning party!
Of course not...not NOW. There is a process that has to be carried out, and it can only be done in this order: If your church is affiliated, a sitting UPC pastor has to be the one to initiate the disaffiliation. A non-UPC pastor cannot pastor an affiliated church. So the only ones that are going to turn their cards in right away are the ones whose churches were never affiliated or at some point previously decided to disaffiliate. The bylaws require that the DS and presbyter be notified and be allowed to present the org's perspective at the duly called meeting. The church hears both arguments and then votes in or out. So to turn in their cards prematurely would be to automatically lose their pastorate. I know a guy who is one of the listed 50 elders who is presently disaffiliating his church and claims that he is going to keep his UPCI license. Not going to happen. As soon as the church completes the disaffiliation process, he will be turning in his card. I have NO doubt about that. Dual membership may be possible but for most it will not be practical. Whose going to be willing to pay dues to both organizations at the same time? No, they're going to see how things shake out, complete the disaffiliation process, and then turn in their cards or stop paying their dues or have a card-burning party!
I suspect that even for the churches that are not affilitated, some will have church bylaws that require the pastor to be UPCI. (I know of churches exactly like this). so the process will be a process.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
The "secrecy" you are hinting about will all be out in the open after January.
There is wisdom in the timing of releasing information. You don't make public every aspect of a developing process;no organization or entity does that.
The lengths you guys will go to to try and cast aspersions on this thing are amazing.
There are legitimate things to be concerned about...why poke at this kind of silliness?
__________________ "Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit:
And the LORD took me as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel."
No, secrecy does not build good organizations. Because any amount of secrecy can cause divison.
__________________
When you read God's Word,you must costantly be saying to yourself,It is talking to me and about me. Soren Kierkegaard
[url]WWW.myspace.com/Merritt238
No, its the inconsistency while in and the inconsitency shown while leaving, that bothers me the most.
God is there anything real, authentic and honest anymore?
Keith, I share your hunger for something real and authentic.
I don't think it is going to ever be found in an organization, either in Hazelwood, or Tulsa either, ultimately, though I support these men's right to do what they are doing.
You find the real and authentic in the grass roots, where men of God are leading their flocks to the best of their abilities.
Reality is there...you can find it.
__________________ "Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit:
And the LORD took me as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel."
PP, I believe it has evolved since the earliest reports. It has been and continues to be something of a work in progress. That is what I am hearing anyway.
__________________ "Then answered Amos, and said to Amaziah, I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycomore fruit:
And the LORD took me as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel."
Keith, I share your hunger for something real and authentic.
I don't think it is going to ever be found in an organization, either in Hazelwood, or Tulsa either, ultimately, though I support these men's right to do what they are doing.
You find the real and authentic in the grass roots, where men of God are leading their flocks to the best of their abilities.
Reality is there...you can find it.
Great post-my father taught me this by example.
It can be diffucult to strike a good balance between too much organization and too much isolation but it can be done thru the gift of wisdom
Keith, I share your hunger for something real and authentic.
I don't think it is going to ever be found in an organization, either in Hazelwood, or Tulsa either, ultimately, though I support these men's right to do what they are doing.
You find the real and authentic in the grass roots, where men of God are leading their flocks to the best of their abilities.
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