The Sabbath Day, Should You Keep or not Keep?

[mfblume]

Jesus arose on the seventh day... the sabbath???

Did Jesus rise on day of firstfruits, which is the day after the sabbath, or not?????

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Is the same understanding that homosexuality is a sin as much as it was in law, but it is not a sin to mingle diverse fabrics.

True or not, to whatever degree, do you see either of these in the decaloguge? As I have often pointed out, the 10 commandments, the royal law, are key.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Jesus arose on the seventh day... the sabbath??? Did Jesus rise on day of firstfruits, which is the day after the sabbath, or not?????

There are various theories on this. Pages upon pages.

They are all simply irrelevant for the sabbath, the seventh day. The seventh never becomes the first, or the eighth.

Even if we knew with certainty that the Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected on the 1st day of the week, it would be simply irrelevant to the creation sabbath ordinance.

1-2-3-4-5-6-shabbat

Shabbat shalom, dear friends.

Steven

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

True or not, to whatever degree, do you see either of these in the decaloguge? As I have often pointed out, the 10 commandments, the royal law, are key.

It's not the royal law. What makes you think that? Jesus says loving your neighbor and loving God fulfills all the law. That's the royal law.... What Jesus said. It's Not the ten commandments. Just because we read the word "commandments" that doesn't necessarily mean the ten.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

There are various theories on this. Pages upon pages.

They are all simply irrelevant for the sabbath, the seventh day. The seventh never becomes the first, or the eighth.

Even if we knew with certainty that the Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected on the 1st day of the week, it would be simply irrelevant to the creation sabbath ordinance.

1-2-3-4-5-6-shabbat

Shabbat shalom, dear friends.

Steven

I never said the sabbath becomes the first day. Straw man argument. I said Jesus arose the day of firstfruits. That's the day after sabbath. Raffi said he arose on sabbath.

Originally Posted by Raffi

I personally believe Jesus rose exactly 72 hours after his burial, which would put his Resurrection in the evening of Saturday, just before sunset

So Raffi says Jesus arose on sabbath day which is before sunset on saturday. Esaias says Jesus arose AFTER sunset on saturday, which is the first day.

The point is Jesus arose on the day of the feast of firstfruits, which is AFTER sabbath day. not during it.

Raffi, how do you explain that in light of fristfruits being the day of resurrection?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I just wanted to address certain falsehoods:
Anyway, Paul said the holy days are (present tense) a shadow of things to come (future tense), not were (past tense) a shadow of things that came (past tense)

I noted that was wrong before and I will again. It was form the standpoint of when Sabbath was instituted that Paul spoke that explanation. And your thought is reading into it what you want, as my sig reminds folks not to do. there's no other explanation about it/

. But this claim that Sabbath keeping "is removing one from full position in Christ" is curious.

Previously, brother Blume attempted to argue that Romans 14 applied, and that keeping or not keeping Sabbath was a matter of personal preference.

I still stand on that IF a sabbath keeper thinks a person is not lost if one refrains. When we bring salvation into it, that changes everything, which is the spirit of Romans 14.

But now it is "removing one from full position in Christ."

IF one claims lack of sabbath keeping makes one lost.

Earlier he also claimed "I keep Sabbath more than you do". These latter statements strike me as somewhat hypocritical. On the one hand, it's "a matter of personal preference, we are not to judge, and do not judge the non sabbath keeper" but yet on the other hand it's "sabbath keepers are removed from full position in Christ" and "you don't even really keep the sabbath as good as *I* do."

I have seen this type of flip-flopping double standard before from antisabbatarians and it's just another indicator to me that they are in error.

You missed my point.

It is the antinomian spirit that threatens

You did it again! You keep bringing up antinomianism, which is dishonest as dishonest can be. And I thought you clarified that by saying you were not implying me.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The first day of the week is not exactly the same as Sunday. Sunday begins at midnight, Saturday night.

That is missing the point completely. The point is the day whenever it is, after the sabbath. And those who attend church on 10:00 a.m. Sunday do so on the Hebrew first day.

The first day, Biblically, begins at sunset Saturday evening. I believe He rose on the first day of the week, anytime from sunset Saturday evening to sometime prior to the women showing up before dawn.

Raffi thinks otherwise:

Originally Posted by Raffi

I personally believe Jesus rose exactly 72 hours after his burial, which would put his Resurrection in the evening of Saturday, just before sunset

The Sabbath is a command, there is no command for Sunday keeping. There is no scripture saying Sunday is the Lords day, or the new sabbath.

That's because AN ORDINANCE like sabbath does not exist in the new covenant. the first covenant had ordinances. Not the second.

There is only ONE instance recorded in scripture where the disciples met on the first day of the week after they knew Jesus had resurrected. And that was a special occasion because Paul was leaving in the morning.

No, there is more than one.

1 Corinthians 16:2 KJV Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

They broke bread in the evening after the sabbath and he taught until early Sunday morning, then he left on a journey - which would not have happened if they believed Sunday was the new sabbath. Breaking bread in the evening as the first day begins is a regular part of sabbath keeping, by the way.

Saying they met on the first day of the week could be Saturday evening after sunset, or it could mean after sunrise ANY TIME during Sunday. However, to speak of the morrow and preaching til midnight does not have to mean it was after sunset on saturday they met. If they met Sunday after sunrise, the words of Acts 20:7 would still fit. Why insist it was Saturday after sunset? What is your basis and what scripture maintains that demand? The more I read this sabbath issue it shows me how presumptuous one has to be. No solid statements... just alleged traditions not noted in actual scripture like when they broke bread.

I find no grounds to say they broke bread just after sunset. Where do you get that from?

Pentecost is counted from the day after the first Sabbath of Unleavened Bread and therefore may be on any day of the week (changes year to year). There is a long standing dispute concerning the counting of Pentecost (Sadducees maintained it was always on a Sunday, others disagreed). I don't believe the Sadducees were correct on that issue.

...I wonder why, although you have no actual grounds again for your disagreement, but rather only you want to think this way to maintain sabbath-keeping.

Catholic and Protestant "Pentecost Sunday" is a result of the RCC fixing Easter on a Sunday and then counting to Pentecost, which makes Pentecost always fall on Sunday. More Sun worship, in my opinion.

The collection for the saints: they were to lay by in store, ie privately set aside money for the relief of the poor in Jerusalem. They were to do it on the first day of the week because business and money transactions were not done on the sabbath.

Which demanded a gathering.

[mfblume]

Jesus rose on the day of firstfruits. This makes SUNDAY signiifcant. Not a commandment or ordinance, like sabbath is. The old first covenant had ordinances like that. They're gone since Christ's reformation. Heb 9.

[mfblume]

There is no scripture saying anyone kept Sabbath before Moses except God. Yet sabbath keepers claim it was in effect before Moses. Where? Because God rested the seventh day in Genesis? Where does it say God commanded Adam or anyone before Moses to keep the seventh day for that reason? It doesn't.

Find ONE HUMAN BEING in the Bible who was said to REST the 7th day before the time of Moses.

The routine response to this is that they were told to REMEMBER the sabbath. That means it must have been in effect long before the commandments were given.


This was not stated because they were meant to keep it long before Moses. It was actually God reminding them of HIS REST, when HE ALONE rested the seventh day after creation, and for the first time it was being given to MANKIND to rest as well. So, remembering pointed to the time GOD RESTED ALONE, with no one ever since that day ever resting the seventh day until God gave it to Israel.

Paraphrase... "Remember the day I rested from my works after the six days. Now you, too, will rest as I did... for the first time man shall also rest the seventh day."

If this was a commandment in effect long before Moses, who wrote it for whom? Moses wrote Genesis to Deuteronomy. And he did not write it until his day.

And it was FOR ISRAEL ALONE.

[Esaias]

Just because someone rejects a conclusion does not mean they have "missed the point."

And your reactions to anyone's use of the term antinomianism is a bit silly.