Should we teach others to rebel against standards?

[The Lemon]

Making broad brushed statements about motives without knowing "why" a man would grow or not grow a beard shows a serious lack of wisdom IMHO. I have been Apostolic for two and a half decades, and I can tell you I have seen hypocrisy on both sides of ANY standard issue or debate - hence they are ALWAYS circular arguments.

I must be an anomaly because I have never endorsed: No shorts, No Beards, No Pants, No trimming hair and I'm still in an Apostolic church 26-years and counting - so either I'm the most stubborn backslider around, or these issues are not as black and white as many want to make them.

Since I'm outing myself anyway - I'll give you another example. As a licensed minister with the UPCI, I could no longer live with being a liar awhen the Affirmation was required - so I surrendered my license and all the positional priviledges - not because I am angry or better than anyone else, but because I need to be honest with God, the fellowship, and my church. But I will tell you that I know many that are ordained that should make the same decision based on the manual but have not, and probably will not - but that is between them and God.

[coksiw]

Originally Posted by n david

Sadly, that is typical. I have known very few who left over standards who didn't have other, worse spiritual issues. Standards was just an excuse. Most aren't in any church now.

When the holiness to the Lord is not inside, standards become a burden, and you would probably feel a tremendous relief when you leave them.

I love the clear teaching of the application of biblical holiness.

When I received the Holy Spirit, I still remember the Lord driving me to walk in holiness. I do remember starting to make changes on the things I did and wore. However, because the church I used to go to back then didn't teach clear application of holiness, I began to struggle over time with my own flesh, and the influence of others inside the church. I ended up dropping many of what I originally did.

I am so thankful the Lord guided me to a church that teaches them clearly, inward and outward, no relativism, no messing around.

Man I love holiness, I love the little ding in my head that tells me "you shouldn't be here", "you shouldn't dress like that", "you shouldn't be watching that". All of that helps me to be pure when I come to prayer. I hate coming to prayer and struggle to find the presence of God, and feel that something is wrong inside me. Clear teaching of how to stay pure is so good for you.

[hometown guy]

We have people coming in our church all the time with facial hair. We don’t say anything. When someone get in the church it’s a minimum of 6months before they are used. Most of the the men that have facial hair have shaved by that point and nobody ever had to deal with it. If they haven’t and want to be used than we tell them that’s the requirement for them to be used. Can’t really think of any situation that someone was on fire for God wanting to be used that didn’t do it. Usually it’s the person that’s been in church years that says “ ain’t no bible for it so I’m don’t care what the church says “ that want to grow it out. Obviously there are other issue with the person. I have never in all my life heard a pastor say that facial hair itself is a sin and is a heaven or hell issue. The times I have had to deal with it which are very few was no problem.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

We have people coming in our church all the time with facial hair. We don’t say anything. When someone get in the church it’s a minimum of 6months before they are used. Most of the the men that have facial hair have shaved by that point and nobody ever had to deal with it. If they haven’t and want to be used than we tell them that’s the requirement for them to be used. Can’t really think of any situation that someone was on fire for God wanting to be used that didn’t do it. Usually it’s the person that’s been in church years that says “ ain’t no bible for it so I’m don’t care what the church says “ that want to grow it out. Obviously there are other issue with the person. I have never in all my life heard a pastor say that facial hair itself is a sin and is a heaven or hell issue. The times I have had to deal with it which are very few was no problem.

So Jesus Christ and the apostles would have had to wait for 6 months and be shaved to be used in the Church

So are rebellion which is like witchcraft and pride damnable sins? Its right here on this thread. Apostolics teaching beards are sin and if these sins lead to Hell you have heard it right here. And whatever Pastor teaches such a thing is guilty of the same accusation.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

So Jesus Christ and the apostles would have had to wait for 6 months and be shaved to be used in the Church

So are rebellion which is like witchcraft and pride damnable sins? Its right here on this thread. Apostolics teaching beards are sin and if these sins lead to Hell you have heard it right here. And whatever Pastor teaches such a thing is guilty of the same accusation.

You seriously have a problem with someone waiting a period of time to be used in the local church?! They can go outside and preach/sing/witness or whatever else they want to do but you seriously have issue if you see a problem with someone waiting for a period of time in any type of leadership role???

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by coksiw

Let's say you allow beard in your church. What would you tell the ministers on the platform representing you church? for instance,
1) A well kept beard or facial hair is allowed
2) No goat teeth or any shaping of the beard that it is not the natural growth

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

You seriously have a problem with someone waiting a period of time to be used in the local church?! They can go outside and preach/sing/witness or whatever else they want to do but you seriously have issue if you see a problem with someone waiting for a period of time in any type of leadership role???

It was meant in context to show that someone with a beard....like Jesus....or his apostles would be kept from ministry because they had a beard.

Most of the the men that have facial hair have shaved by that point and nobody ever had to deal with it. If they haven’t and want to be used than we tell them that’s the requirement for them to be used.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

It was meant in context to show that someone with a beard....like Jesus....or his apostles would be kept from ministry because they had a beard.

You can’t have a discussion when you go to the extreme. We also don’t allow sandals On the platform either so I guess that eliminates whole centuries of people from being used if they were here in 2020 dressed like they were from some other century.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

You can’t have a discussion when you go to the extreme. We also don’t allow sandals On the platform either so I guess that eliminates whole centuries of people from being used if they were here in 2020 dressed like they were from some other century.

My Brother,

The extreme is that preachers who are supposedly "Apostolic" are teaching men who wear the God designed beard he gave them that unless they shave it off they are in sin.

THATS THE EXTREME!

[Nicodemus1968]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

Making broad brushed statements about motives without knowing "why" a man would grow or not grow a beard shows a serious lack of wisdom IMHO. I have been Apostolic for two and a half decades, and I can tell you I have seen hypocrisy on both sides of ANY standard issue or debate - hence they are ALWAYS circular arguments.

I must be an anomaly because I have never endorsed: No shorts, No Beards, No Pants, No trimming hair and I'm still in an Apostolic church 26-years and counting - so either I'm the most stubborn backslider around, or these issues are not as black and white as many want to make them.

Since I'm outing myself anyway - I'll give you another example. As a licensed minister with the UPCI, I could no longer live with being a liar awhen the Affirmation was required - so I surrendered my license and all the positional priviledges - not because I am angry or better than anyone else, but because I need to be honest with God, the fellowship, and my church. But I will tell you that I know many that are ordained that should make the same decision based on the manual but have not, and probably will not - but that is between them and God.

The backsliders I know are stubborn.
Also, the most dangerous place to be is on a church pew.