Changing To Preterism from Rapture Doctrine

[Monterrey]

Now watch Sean bash the Church.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

I love Israel, I am a part of Israel, it is the Church.

Not Replacement theology Sean, but fulfillment theology.

That is something that is hard for you to fathom.

Replacement means something takes the place of something else...

Fulfillment means that everything is fulfilled.

The physical OT people of Israel were a shadow of the NT people of Israel who are the Church.

OT is fullfilled in the New.

But....

For someone who cannot even grasp simple things this is going to be too hard.

The thing that I grasp is that you teach that ALL of these passages I previously posted have NOTHING to do with NATIONAL ISRAEL AT ALL...

#1 You think every single one of those passages(shadow passages) are for the church, right?(meaning, replacement theology)

Or, #2 you simply think they are broken promises to national Israel, right?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Now watch Sean bash the Church.

You sure know how to hurt a guy

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Sean

You sure know how to hurt a guy

Monterrey is a jerk.

He ought to be banned.

[Sean]

LOL, he is a great guy...LOL

[shazeep]

hey, there is a quite strong sense in which you deny the body of Christ, wadr.

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Monterrey is a jerk.

He ought to be banned.

If every jerk got banned here, I would be very lonely.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Bowas

If every jerk got banned here, I would be very lonely.

I would keep you company, Bowas

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Sean

Loren, you have eliminated the notion of a future nation of Israel from the promise of Jer. 31, etc. from their promise of God.

You have effectively replaced Israel with the church, using these promises to the nation of Israel for yourselves.(eliminating them in the process)

These promises in Jer. 31, are in no way, null and void to the nation of Israel(Jews), as preterists teach.

You call yourselves inclusionists, but you really are replacementists.(replacing the NATION of Israel with the church)

I am the true inclusionist here!(I teach that we are INCLUDED in the nation of Israels' future promise of Jer. 31.)

How many times do we have to tell you, these prophesies were to the time of Christ and the generation following. Not some 2500 years in the future. The apostles quoted from these same passages as being fulfilled or coming to pass in their life time not some future time.

Originally Posted by Sean

[COLOR="red"]Not likely, but God is simply a promise keeper.

If Jesus returned today, for example, Benjamin Netanyahu and all of his living descendants, along with all of Israel, will unworthily be saved and recieve the Holy Ghost.

Wow just wow, you just keep getting farther and farther out on that limb. God is just going to give them the holy ghost, just because of their nationality. Question, why isn't God giving them his spirit today? And what about national Israel for 2000 years?

Originally Posted by Monterrey

I love Israel, I am a part of Israel, it is the Church.

Not Replacement theology Sean, but fulfillment theology.

That is something that is hard for you to fathom.

Replacement means something takes the place of something else...

Fulfillment means that everything is fulfilled.

The physical OT people of Israel were a shadow of the NT people of Israel who are the Church.

OT is fullfilled in the New.

But....

For someone who cannot even grasp simple things this is going to be too hard.

Well said.

Originally Posted by Sean

The thing that I grasp is that you teach that ALL of these passages I previously posted have NOTHING to do with NATIONAL ISRAEL AT ALL...

#1 You think every single one of those passages(shadow passages) are for the church, right?(meaning, replacement theology)

Or, #2 you simply think they are broken promises to national Israel, right?

Not one of these promises are broken, they have been in full effect for 2000 years, Israelites have had the same opportunity to be saved as has everyone else that hears the good news. What you cannot grasp is that since the day of Pentecost, when God poured out his spirit on the Jews that the kingdom of God became a spiritual kingdom comprised of Both Jew and Gentile.

God did not reject the nation of Israel, he rejected those the did not receive the good news of the kingdom. You can continue to spew you garbage all you want, but the fact is that scripture teaches that there is nether Jew or Greek (Gentile) in the eyes of God, now and forever more.

It matters not in the eyes of God what nationality one is, American, Canadian, European, Chinese or even Jewish. We all have the same plan of salvation, now and to the end to time, if there is such a thing.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

How many times do we have to tell you, these prophesies were to the time of Christ and the generation following. Not some 2500 years in the future. The apostles quoted from these same passages as being fulfilled or coming to pass in their life time not some future time.


Wrong Loren. How many times must I tell you..Wrong, Loren.


Wow just wow, you just keep getting farther and farther out on that limb. God is just going to give them the holy ghost, just because of their nationality. Question, why isn't God giving them his spirit today? And what about national Israel for 2000 years?

No, God is going to give them the Holy Ghost, because He promised it to National Israel and their fathers, millenniums ago.

He is giving ANYONE that He calls, His Spirit today.

National Israel being saved is a special event, as depicted in Jer. 31, etc.(reserved for the return of Jesus Christ)



Well said.



Not one of these promises are broken, they have been in full effect for 2000 years, Israelites have had the same opportunity to be saved as has everyone else that hears the good news. What you cannot grasp is that since the day of Pentecost, when God poured out his spirit on the Jews that the kingdom of God became a spiritual kingdom comprised of Both Jew and Gentile.

I fully agree with you here, Loren.

God did not reject the nation of Israel, he rejected those the did not receive the good news of the kingdom. You can continue to spew you garbage all you want, but the fact is that scripture teaches that there is nether Jew or Greek (Gentile) in the eyes of God, now and forever more.

I fully agree with you here, Loren.

It matters not in the eyes of God what nationality one is, American, Canadian, European, Chinese or even Jewish. We all have the same plan of salvation, now and to the end to time, if there is such a thing.

I fully DISAGREE with you here Loren.

The Old Testament is heavily laced with prophecies of NATIONAL ISRAEL being saved, both from the enemy nations AND from their sins.

I posted around a dozen separate passages on this thread that say EXACTLY that.

The job of the preterist, is to take those passages that I posted and make them NOT mean national Israel, but the church.

If that can be successfully done, then please show me, okay?

Let us start with this passage....