Polygamy in the Bible

[LUKE2447]

Yes, Lord save us from the wretched truth seeking polygamists that give clear Biblical principle and teaching. Also keep those who ignore basic simple clear teaching and live through the distorted paradigm of now and like to distort what true love is in "any" type of marriage with those godless men that have no love but of themselves. Amen!

Love,
Typically Irrational

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by ILG

I can't resist posting to your post, Dora. I really feel for the wives of these guys. You can't help but wonder what is going on in their hearts. You can't help but feel the grief and pain their wives must be feeling if they know what they are writing (and if they don't, their attitudes will come out elsewhere). Very sad. You guys need to really think about the damage you are doing to your relationships with the blatant disrespect for women being propogated here. Fine already that it was practiced for economic reasons or whatever. Too many of you make it sound like you wished you lived in a polygamous country.

Oh Yes! These men must have lust written all over them. Who cares whether they seek truth, your paradigm is truth, right!?!?!? Yes, the damage of truth how can we dare break out of the chains of ignorance!
Oh yes my wife is so in pain to see what the Bible really says(actually she sees the truth of the matter for what it is putting her personal wants or opinion out of the equation which is how we should all be toward anything)

Oh Yes, we are disprespecting our women! How dare God do that! My goodness also Paul telling women to be like the women of old calling them Lord. What reprobates!


hmmm seems I could say the same of your so stern intents! Seems I could easily argue for women being selfish and not abiding in the role God placed them in relationship to there husband! Don't like another woman gett'n in on your territory huh? The case can be made about why you believe like you do while negating clear teaching on the subject. You basically call God a sinner! A God that goes against his own nature because he gave wives to David and others only because he had not given ALL or CLEAR revelation of his true feeling or intents which somehow he never revealed to be a sin. Yet though we did not know it was sin and God did, he did it anyway. yeaaaahhh riiiight

[Aquila]

***Enter weepy violin music***

Originally Posted by ILG

I can't resist posting to your post, Dora. I really feel for the wives of these guys. You can't help but wonder what is going on in their hearts. You can't help but feel the grief and pain their wives must be feeling if they know what they are writing (and if they don't, their attitudes will come out elsewhere). Very sad. You guys need to really think about the damage you are doing to your relationships with the blatant disrespect for women being propogated here. Fine already that it was practiced for economic reasons or whatever. Too many of you make it sound like you wished you lived in a polygamous country.

ILG,

I love my wife very much. She knows I have no interest inother than her. I don’t fool around or do anything stupid. For the most part I work a lot, go to church, and I’m home with her and my son or on the computer (posting here lol).

This is a “theological exercise”. This isn’t a campaign to push for polygamy. Maybe women get emotionally involved and loose sight of the difference. We also discuss “war” and if it’s biblical for Christians to engage in war. Some (such as David K. Bernard, Bro. Urshan, Bro. Grey, and others) have stated in their writings that “war” was permissible under the Old Covenant because God dealt with a nation while it isn’t permissible under the New Covenant because God is dealing with individual people. Others will explain why they think the Old Testament examples of war justify Christians engaging in war to defend the state. The discussion is an “theological exercise” on the intellectual level only. No one is campaigning for war or for pacifism. It’s just a discussion. Some discuss the use of alcohol in the Bible with one side believing in moderation and the other side believing in abstinence. It’s just a discussion.

That being said…it’s a little offensive that you insinuate that something is “going on” in our hearts. That’s an unfair and unjust judgment against us. We’re only talking about polygamy on a “theological” level. If we can’t have an intellectual discussion on the theological implications of difficult subjects without being judged…where does that leave us?

As for my wife, my wife comes from a Jewish family. She’s well aware of polygamous practices in the Bible and she and I believe the same about it on a theological level. We both believe that it wasn’t a sin and that it was an institution in an ancient culture that has outlived its relevance and necessity in western society. We both agree that monogamy is far superior. You’re assuming that my wife thinks like you and that I’m somehow victimizing her with my opinions is also offensive.

I think you’re being overly emotional about what is only a theological discussion.

Some men here “may” wish that they had more than one wife. I firmly believe that after the honeymoon they’d change their minds. LOL

You’re viewing this through different eyes than we are. We’re men. Some of us have looked through the sights of an M16, sighted a man running across a stretch of desert, fired upon him (pop-pop-pop, your ears ring and the smell of gunpowder is burned into your memory), and watched his lifeless body drop like a rag-doll. You feel nauseous…and yet strangely hyper. You wonder…Did he have family? Did he have a wife and children? Who will wail and weep when they hear he doesn’t come home? What will his children feel when they realize daddy isn’t going to ever tell them he loves them again? Will God still love us even though we’ve done this…or perhaps… worse.

My point is that some of us wrestle with far more serious issues in our hearts than the theoretical aspects of a theological discussion about polygamy.

From a male perspective…I wish a few of you ladies could just talk about a subject without getting emotional, taking it personal, and judging our hearts. With all due respects, some of us see life very differently than you do and we won’t pander to you like other men do. We know the way life is, was, and why things were the way they were. We’re thankful things have changed. But please…don’t judge us.

Women have had it really good for about 150 years. Don’t forget that things weren’t always this good for women. And don’t forget that if you were in ancient Israel surrounded by Canaanites, Hittites, and Moabites….becoming one of a godly man’s wives would be something you’d hope for…. considering the alternative.

So please don’t judge us, the men in the Bible, nor the women who were in those unions. It was all necessary at that time.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Dora

BTW, thanks to Pastor DtSalaz for all the good anti-polygamy posting. I'm still just on the floor in complete SHOCK that Christian men actually condone polygamy and think it is not against Christian principles. The practice of polygamy does NOT line up with the teachings of Jesus Christ concerning how we are to treat our fellow human beings.

If the world were to degenerate into a chaotic world as brutal as it was in Old Testament Israel, I assure you, polygamy (if re-embraced) would be an institution providing social stability and protection for women. It certainly wouldn’t be Christian to allow a woman to be brutalized just to keep her out of a polygamous union.

Polygamy was NEVER the ideal situation. Even though the OT LAW provided conduct guidelines for the practice of slavery, it was NEVER God's ideal.

We might be able to agree somewhat here. Perhaps polygamy wasn’t God’s ideal…however…it’s also not a sin. Should we aim for the ideal with the fullness of revelation that we have? Yes. But the issue is was it “sin” or not. I just vote that it wasn’t ideal, but it also wasn’t sin.

Israelites were given guidelines for conducting themselves as slaves while they were in bondage. God's people, of ALL people knew how it felt to be in the position of "SLAVE" and I can't believe they felt on top of the world being in bondage no matter how well they were treated.

Actually I think you have your chronology confused. The Israelites were set free…and then God gave the Law. The Law taught them out to properly treat their own slaves. And remember Dora….biblical slavery wasn’t anything like slavery as practiced in early America. It was more like indentured servitude. They only served 7 years and earned money to cover their expenses upon gaining their freedom. Read God’s Law regarding slaves and you’ll see that God was rather compassionate and ethical in how He commanded slaves to be treated.

Likewise, I can't believe that women throughout history "enjoyed" being part of a harem of wives - custom or no custom. Women have been subjected to any number of debasements throughout history. Stripped of dignity, respect and value throughout history, it's no wonder women have fought to have their basic human rights recognized and given true significance. It's no sin to desire the basic privilege of being respected as a human being as opposed to being viewed as a piece of property, as a lesser being, as a person with impaired intellect due to her sex, etc., etc.

Dora….in context, polygamy was a step up from abuse in biblical times. Don’t judge those women until you’ve walked a mile in their shoes. If your choices were between being a godly man’s third or fourth wife and selling yourself, or being brutalized unspeakably and sold into slavery….I think you’d choose to live under the roof of a godly man who would protect you, love you, care for you, and allow you much freedom other women didn’t enjoy. Again, notice women in biblical polygamy had their own servants and attendants. You’d live like a queen and have more respect and freedom than most unmarried women in your ancient Israeli community.

Dora, I think you have more serious issues underlying your position.

Odds are...if you listed each "abuse" you believe is present in polygamy we'd agree that said abuse is absolutely wrong. However, you'd not find those abuses in the homes of godly men who practiced biblical polygamy in ancient Israel.

[Dora]

So funny! I believe polygamy is WRONG so I'm usurping the authority of men in my life. Ridiculous! I know my place and believe in headship and honoring authority. I still believe that polygamy is WRONG WRONG WRONG. It's twisted, sick and degrading to women. No matter how you twist it, it's wrong in this dispensation. Jesus revealed the error of adhering to the LAW for the wrong reasons, i.e. trying to earn your way to heaven through works. The Law was imperfect in that it made allowances for the ignorance of mankind and their mixed up ways. Man is constantly trying to create a counterfeit for God's perfected plan. Man comes up with their own schemes to circumvent God's ideal. It always results in total chaos, exploded relationships and messed up human lives in the end.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Dora

So funny! I believe polygamy is WRONG so I'm usurping the authority of men in my life. Ridiculous! I know my place and believe in headship and honoring authority. I still believe that polygamy is WRONG WRONG WRONG. It's twisted, sick and degrading to women. No matter how you twist it, it's wrong in this dispensation. Jesus revealed the error of adhering to the LAW for the wrong reasons, i.e. trying earn your way to heaven through works. The Law was imperfect in that it made allowances for the ignorance of mankind and their mixed up ways. Man is constantly trying to create a counterfeit for God's perfected plan. Man comes up with their own schemes to circumvent God's ideal. It always results in total chaos, exploded relationships and messed up human lives in the end.

I can agree with a lot of what you said. You said that it is "wrong", and you then specified "in this dispensation".

I can respect that and that's very close to my position. Is polygamy necessary today? No. Is it ideal? No. Was it God's original intent? Perhaps not. Can it then be said to be "wrong"? Yes. But is it a "sin", a damnable offense, something that is detestible to God? No.

I don't want a polygamous marriage.
Don't need one.
Wouldn't perform one.
And would only allow a pre-existing one in extinuating circumstances in a foreign culture as described above.

I'm not "pro-polygamy". My point is that it wasn't a "sin". If you wish to say it was a cultural allowance in the previous dispensations but isn't ideal and is improper today, I'll agree. But to say it's a "sin" has great implications that even brings serious judgment upon God as being complacent in sin and for allowing it, offering it, and regulating it.

Now Dora, I have the feeling that you have deeper issues in the realm of biblical marriage than the subject of polygamy. Relax. Take a deep breath.

I feel I have to say this. Dora, I don't know if this is meant for you or someone else. I don't know who, what, when, where, or anything like that, but...they tried to justify their actions by citing polygamous passages. They were wrong. I just felt I had to say that.

[Dora]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I can agree with a lot of what you said. You said that it is "wrong", and you then specified "in this dispensation".

I can respect that and that's very close to my position. Is polygamy necessary today? No. Is it ideal? No. Was it God's original intent? Perhaps not. Can it then be said to be "wrong"? Yes. But is it a "sin", a damnable offense, something that is detestible to God? No.

I don't want a polygamous marriage.
Don't need one.
Wouldn't perform one.
And would only allow a pre-existing one in extinuating circumstances in a foreign culture as described above.

I'm not "pro-polygamy". My point is that it wasn't a "sin". If you wish to say it was a cultural allowance in the previous dispensations but isn't ideal and is improper today, I'll agree. But to say it's a "sin" has great implications that even brings serious judgment upon God as being complacent in sin and for allowing it, offering it, and regulating it.

Now Dora, I have the feeling that you have deeper issues in the realm of biblical marriage than the subject of polygamy. Relax. Take a deep breath.

I feel I have to say this. Dora, I don't know if this is meant for you or someone else. I don't know who, what, when, where, or anything like that, but...they tried to justify their actions by citing polygamous passages. They were wrong. I just felt I had to say that.

WHAT??? HUH??? You are speaking cryptically here. What on earth are you trying to insinuate?

[Sherri]

I hate the idea of polygamy, and I don't think it's God's plan for us. But I will say that in African communities where it's practiced (and yes, even by Christians), the women seem content and happy for the most part. Many of them actually like the other wives and form lifelong friendships with them. They are almost like partners in work - they farm together, cook together, raise their kids in each other's huts, etc. The children call all of them "mother" or "second mother", etc.

I cannot even remotely imagine liking another woman who was a "second wife" to Eddie. It's beyond my realm of imagination. But alot of it is cultural and you just accept what you are raised with.

I still don't think it's what God wants, but I wouldn't say that all women in the situation are unhappy. Some actually thrive in that environment, as weird as that may seem to me.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by Dora

So funny! I believe polygamy is WRONG so I'm usurping the authority of men in my life. Ridiculous! I know my place and believe in headship and honoring authority. I still believe that polygamy is WRONG WRONG WRONG. It's twisted, sick and degrading to women. No matter how you twist it, it's wrong in this dispensation. Jesus revealed the error of adhering to the LAW for the wrong reasons, i.e. trying to earn your way to heaven through works. The Law was imperfect in that it made allowances for the ignorance of mankind and their mixed up ways. Man is constantly trying to create a counterfeit for God's perfected plan. Man comes up with their own schemes to circumvent God's ideal. It always results in total chaos, exploded relationships and messed up human lives in the end.

You are correct.

You are also viewing this from a perch atop the pinnacle of female liberation. Western women have more choice and control over their destiny than any class of women in history. However, the extreme feminists, the ones who drive the political agendas, continue to push for more and more favor and privilege for women. I'm sure that you can see that the flip side of this coin is that there exists less favor and privilege for men. Western civilization has handed over the keys to the traditional family to women. The entire spectrum of family and gender law is nowadays institutionally biased against men. Women are societally encouraged to be self-absorbed, to seek self-fulfillment and romantic, unrealistic, ideals in relationships.

In light of the twin facts that boys raised by single mothers are far more likely to end up in jail, and approximately 75% of divorce is initiated by women these days, how would you evaluate the civilizational impact of taking women's liberation to the other extreme?

[Aquila]

Op Carl, you make some very good points and ask some provocative questions.

I once had a sociology professor open a discussion on politics, culture, women, and the right to vote. He asked how the political landscape would look and what American culture would be like if women were never granted the right to vote. Even the liberals in the discussion (who were slightly taken aback at the notion) admitted that many, if not most, of the "social issues" (that worry conservatives) facing America today would be non-existant or seriously deminished. For example, where would the Pro-Choice movement be...if women didn't vote?