Mooney Guns for "Secret" Meeting in Detroit?

[D. Wright]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

I think you people are missing the boat on Anthony Mangun.

I will give my opinion--commentators do it all the time.

Anthony Mangun is the ultimate pragmatist. He will do what is good and right for Anthony Mangun.

I'm not saying he's a hypocrite--far from it. He's just a smart player. He is NO Joan of Arc and he is not going to fall on his sword for anyone.

If you could give Anthony Mangun a truth serum (not that he'd lie, just that he keeps these thoughts locked up in himself) where he HAD to speak his mind and heart on these issues:

AM would say these dress "standards" were absolute hogwash.

But Anthony Mangun is not so dramatic (or dumb) to get up at POA and give some sort of "We were wrong!" sermon. Why should he? He's in the catbird seat and he knows eventually it will fade away without him saying a word.

True, as someone pointed out, GA and Vesta are apparently going to live to be 100, but so what? Anthony is Senior Pastor of a huge church and life is good.

Why rock the boat? He can pay lip service to these things. He is not a man of convictions--liberal or conservative--so much that he's going to make a political or ministerial martyr of himself over them.

Even so, Anthony is no conservative in the sense of the UPC neanderthals. I saw him a couple years ago at the Louisiana high school state championship basketball game at the Cajundome in Lafayette and I have it on good authority that he attends LSU football games.

Something telling to me about Anthony: he was always a Dallas Cowboys fan.

I am a purist here--I believe a man of character sticks with his teams through thick and thin--he lives and dies with them through winning and losing.

Back in the late-eighties when the Cowboys were terrible, going 1-15, I was talking with Anthony on the phone and ragged him about it a little. His reply was matter-of-fact: "I'm a Saints fan."

He no doubt jumped on the Cowboys' bandwagon again in the 90s but if you ask him now? I bet he's a Saints fan. lol

So ... he's always going to make his bed on the winning side.

While deep down inside I think he believes that a lot of UPC legalism is hogwash, he will NEVER lead a revolution over it.

Not when things are just hunky-dory for him and as the writer James Thurber said, when he's sitting in the catbird seat.

Timlan,

Miss your straight-shooting. Good to read your posts.

[timlan2057]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Timlan-
I wonder what would happen if a person with influence were to speak up. Wonder if people would follow or puch against.

JT ... you raise a good point here.

What was the catalyst for the UPC to finally pass television advertising?

It was Anthony Mangun just simply making a casual statement behind the pulpit at BOTT that he was for it.

That gave courage to a lot of those guys afraid of being out on a limb alone. "If Anthony's willing to come out in the open for it, then hey, I'm all right."

What would happen if AM did the same thing with regards to legalism?

It AIN'T gonna happen ... just something to think about.

But I assure you, there are a ton of preachers out there just waiting for some prominent and respected name to lead the way.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

JT ... you raise a good point here.

What was the catalyst for the UPC to finally pass television advertising?

It was Anthony Mangun just simply making a casual statement behind the pulpit at BOTT that he was for it.

That gave courage to a lot of those guys afraid of being out on a limb alone. "If Anthony's willing to come out in the open for it, then hey, I'm all right."

What would happen if AM did the same thing with regards to legalism?

It AIN'T gonna happen ... just something to think about.

But I assure you, there are a ton of preachers out there just waiting for some prominent and respected name to lead the way.

Agreed. If you're not at a certain level on the totem pole, you can try and lead a revolution and the end result is that you're blackballed and you're a charismatic compromiser who needs to be avoided like the plague, with the scriptural backing of "Avoid those who walk disorderly among you."

Once you get over a certain notch (and I'm not quite sure exactly where that notch is located, but am fairly sure AM is over it) then you're a visionary, and people will follow with the scriptural backing of "Remember not the things old, forget the former things, I will do a new work, saith the Lord."

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by timlan2057

JT ... you raise a good point here.

What was the catalyst for the UPC to finally pass television advertising?

It was Anthony Mangun just simply making a casual statement behind the pulpit at BOTT that he was for it.

That gave courage to a lot of those guys afraid of being out on a limb alone. "If Anthony's willing to come out in the open for it, then hey, I'm all right."

What would happen if AM did the same thing with regards to legalism?

It AIN'T gonna happen ... just something to think about.

But I assure you, there are a ton of preachers out there just waiting for some prominent and respected name to lead the way.

This is just my suspicions speaking here. But I wonder if beside his parent still being around and stuff I wonder if he, AM, is worried about becoming like some of the people that have left before? Some men and women have pretty much gone crazy or some variety of that. That is not to say the Mikey would show up with cut and dyed hair one day or anything, but sometimes I have noticed that once those bondaries are removed that it seems like they don't know where to go from there. Maybe it is better said that it seems the floor has been removed and the seem to be falling and don't know where to go. Hope that makes sense. I have seen some of my friends leave and end up is strange places because they didn't know where the new limits were.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Agreed. If you're not at a certain level on the totem pole, you can try and lead a revolution and the end result is that you're blackballed and you're a charismatic compromiser who needs to be avoided like the plague, with the scriptural backing of "Avoid those who walk disorderly among you."

Once you get over a certain notch (and I'm not quite sure exactly where that notch is located, but am fairly sure AM is over it) then you're a visionary, and people will follow with the scriptural backing of "Remember not the things old, forget the former things, I will do a new work, saith the Lord."

You know I remember at BOTT several years ago there was a prophecy that went out over him that he will elevated into a form of leadership. Wonder if that prophcey was true and if so this type of thing is what was being referred to...???

There is of course A LOT at stake if he or others were to speak up. I would think that they have become accustomed to life as it is and it is not a big deal to NOT change since they have lived it this way for decades. I think that as the generations past should God hold off his rapture that the ORG will ease up on some issuesl, well at least it my hope. There is no way that I could or would get a license with them now. The rules are too odd and I don't follow the same belief. I am cool with not having a license too. I hope and believe that God has great plans for this movement, but I think the key is to follow the cloud. The cloud doesn't reside ONLY over the UPCI.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

... I have heard that there are some relatively 'big names' out there that are wanting to push this. I think there has to be voices of people with big influence to speak up and say what they think. I wonder what would happen if a person with influence were to speak up. Wonder if people would follow or puch against.

If someone does stick his neck out, he may get his head chopped off.

The UPC has been compared to the Mafia or to the Teamsters Union. If you come up against them you get killed. You might not be found with cement shoes in a lake or alone in a car with a bullet through your head, but there are other ways to "kill" people. How many ministers have been destroyed by stories of adultery, etc?

About all a person can do is leave. Then he is slandered and blackballed and people are afraid to fellowship him. And if his church is affiliated, he's really stuck unless he wants to start over with just his wife and kids.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by D. Wright

Timlan,

Miss your straight-shooting. Good to read your posts.

I always like his posts.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Agreed. If you're not at a certain level on the totem pole, you can try and lead a revolution and the end result is that you're blackballed and you're a charismatic compromiser who needs to be avoided like the plague, with the scriptural backing of "Avoid those who walk disorderly among you."

Once you get over a certain notch (and I'm not quite sure exactly where that notch is located, but am fairly sure AM is over it) then you're a visionary, and people will follow with the scriptural backing of "Remember not the things old, forget the former things, I will do a new work, saith the Lord."

Jeremiah 31:22
22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Falla39

[/B]

Jeremiah 31:22
22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

Good one! But that's not a new thing, women have been giving men directions (compassing) men for a long time~!

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Good one! But that's not a new thing, women have been giving men directions (compassing) men for a long time~!

LOL!!! Just trying to lighten things up a bit!