Tithing…Is it a command?

[Sean]

Ok brother, I will back off of the personal rhetoric...thanks.

[good samaritan]

After listening to both sides and much thought. I have decided that I will teach tithing from the viewpoint of a historical example of giving in the law. Not condemning those who do not do it, but encouraging people to be prayerful and consider all scripture when supporting their local ministry. I think people do need to evaluate how they teach giving. For you not to make references to the tithe is to leave out scriptures, but for us to say that it is a New Testament command is wrong also.

I believe by taking this stance pastors will not discourage their already tithers, but also will be more scripturally correct. I have heard tithing taught and preached all my life and still most did not do it. I really think that my stance will not change people's attitude toward giving because it is a matter of the heart. This is another one of them blanket statements, but most who didn't tithe before aren't going to give even by being more precise in our teaching.

I have watched for years people who are part of a church buy new cars and have the best and Be stingy when it comes to giving. I think a lot of people are really thinking that by changing their stance, it will hurt the work. The tithers who attend our church will probably continue to tithe just because of personal convictions. I will also probably have to continue to rescue those who haven't learned good financial stewardship.

Also as for the references being made against ministers of the gospel. You should probably evaluate your stance. None of us lived in the first century church and I think scriptures give us an idea of what it was like, but I don't think any of us clearly know how everything operated. We need to stay with the scripture, but not go back in time and try to mimic a 2,000 year old culture.

1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things

Some of you can continue to make your blanket statements against the ministry, but you better stop and think that the gospel made it to you by one of those preachers. something to think about

[Sean]

Ok, how does this sound...teaching tithing is not nice....LOL

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

After listening to both sides and much thought. I have decided that I will teach tithing from the viewpoint of a historical example of giving in the law. Not condemning those who do not do it, but encouraging people to be prayerful and consider all scripture when supporting their local ministry. I think people do need to evaluate how they teach giving. For you not to make references to the tithe is to leave out scriptures, but for us to say that it is a New Testament command is wrong also.

I believe by taking this stance pastors will not discourage their already tithers, but also will be more scripturally correct. I have heard tithing taught and preached all my life and still most did not do it. I really think that my stance will not change people's attitude toward giving because it is a matter of the heart. This is another one of them blanket statements, but most who didn't tithe before aren't going to give even by being more precise in our teaching.

I have watched for years people who are part of a church buy new cars and have the best and Be stingy when it comes to giving. I think a lot of people are really thinking that by changing their stance, it will hurt the work. The tithers who attend our church will probably continue to tithe just because of personal convictions. I will also probably have to continue to rescue those who haven't learned good financial stewardship.

Also as for the references being made against ministers of the gospel. You should probably evaluate your stance. None of us lived in the first century church and I think scriptures give us an idea of what it was like, but I don't think any of us clearly know how everything operated. We need to stay with the scripture, but not go back in time and try to mimic a 2,000 year old culture.

1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things

Some of you can continue to make your blanket statements against the ministry, but you better stop and think that the gospel made it to you by one of those preachers. something to think about

Brother, nobody here is AGAINST the ministry. We just want to fix something they teach that is broken. Nobody on Gods' green earth has a right to insert a doctrine into the original Apostolic teachings of the Bible. Our N.T. Bible(originally written 2000 years ago) is the final say in what we must teach. If a doctrine is absent in the scripture, we dare not teach it publicly. If I teach GAP THEORY for instance, then I die. I will go into eternity as a heretic. Thats how serious getting it right is for us teachers.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, nobody here is AGAINST the ministry. We just want to fix something they teach that is broken. Nobody on Gods' green earth has a right to insert a doctrine into the original Apostolic teachings of the Bible. Our N.T. Bible(originally written 2000 years ago) is the final say in what we must teach. If a doctrine is absent in the scripture, we dare not teach it publicly. If I teach GAP THEORY for instance, then I die. I will go into eternity as a heretic. Thats how serious getting it right is for us teachers.

I am not sure I totally understand where you stand. Do you have a problem with a minister reflecting on the OT teaching of tithing? I agree with the point that we go beyond scripture to command a tithe.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I am not sure I totally understand where you stand. Do you have a problem with a minister reflecting on the OT teaching of tithing? I agree with the point that we go beyond scripture to command a tithe.

Brother, let me tell you what I believe is happening to the church today.....We are no doubt, still partially in the "reformation" period in some of our doctrines. I was saved into it also. I was oblivious to any flaws in our beliefs and in my early years, loved teaching and debating trinitarians. After about 10 years, the Lord began to slowly reveal the doctrinal errors of our own movements. I have done many face to face discussions with ministers and get the same answers on these concepts they teach. I think many of them believe "grace" covers the errors of the doctrines we teach. They just agree to leave "well enough alone", so to speak. Brother, I spent over 30 years winning sinners to the Lord, proving the Bible is the Word of God and fighting for their souls against everything imaginable(from atheism to gross sin). The Lord, in the last couple of years, has turned my attention INWARD to rid the ministry of these erroneous teachings that run many off from the church.
I have no idea what will become of it, but my passion is to fix this problem. I have burnt bridges in the ministry for myself, but the Lord wants me to do it. This is a Holy Ghost thing I am doing brother.(you know exactly what I mean when I say that)


A minister may teach whatever he feel led to teach from the O.T., just as long as he does not try to legislate the Old Covenant into the New Covenant. This can cause the bottles to break.(the New doesnt belong in the Old)

[good samaritan]

I admire the desire for more biblical accuracy, but I still wonder how you feel on reflecting on the tithe, but not commanding it? When it comes to giving a lot of people don't know how or where to start. I am not saying commanding tithes, but getting some of our ideas from scripture and letting people do it whatever freewill.

[Sean]

Well, I have suggested to pastor friends, to just teach "responsible giving". I did it myself for almost 20 years and am blessed by it.

If the ministry involves the congregation in the "blessing of giving"(not tithing), to keep it running smoothly, folks will gladly take part as they are able to.

#1...Never marginalize saints by their economic status. This is a ministerial sin.

#2...Do not take up offerings in front of sinners. Leave a safe in the back of the bldg. to secretly allow giving. (no marching...LOL) This allows the Lord that sees in secret to reward the saint openly.

#3...No pleading for money publicly(a voice blast before service can be a tool to privately let the saints know of a need)...if the Lord does not supply enough through his saints, dont try to twist His or their arms for more.

#4...Create a benevolence fund for the genuinely needy brethren and take a salary from the fund as Biblically allowed. Do not get extravagant with goodies, but live modestly(like the average saint in the church). This will keep us from reproach of others accusations and destroying the faith of some.

These are just a few simple suggestions to get the saints and the world to see us through Biblically correct glasses.

[good samaritan]

I like many of your suggestions. I do believe that any pastors making a change in church operations of an already established church will have to walk softly in how they make changes. Churches have many tithers who you don't want to offend and when you cross people's theology it can become heated. I will hold a middle of the road standpoint by not preaching tithing as commandment, but a form of stewardship in our giving and stand against marginalizing people because of dollar amounts.

We must be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. There still needs to be a focus on people's stewardship in giving and if we make people feel God doesn't care it may be a grave mistake. I don't want to become a social network without the Spirit of God. I believe we should be able to distinguish between saints and sinners. We must press the point of being Spirit led in all parts of our lives.

I love to hear testimonies of hundreds getting saved in church services, but when you return a year later and none are there. Or maybe a year later they live just as sinful a life as they did before their conversion. I don't to fail people by being to hard or to soft. I feel like we need to stay in the word, but it will sometimes cause conviction.

I don't want to see how many rules I can shave off in order to keep people at church. Our motives can be bad either way. There have been good well intentioned tithe preachers and bad, but there have been good and bad anti-tithe preachers. I don't just want to know the book(Bible), but I want to know the author(God).

[jediwill83]

I believe if we proclaim to have" truth" we must follow that truth wherever it takes us...even if it makes us stand out and goes against our pride.Even more important than not offending saints we should have the character to stand before God with a honest and upright spirit.I was raised in the church and was of the mindset that everything that came over the pulpit was "truth".I didnt start out with a wrong spirit and seek to disprove the preacher...I was just doing some open studying and started seeing inconsistencies in what was preached and what was in scripture.When we teach baptism we point back to how it was recorded as being done in scripture...when we teach about the infilling of the HolyGhost we show examples of how it happened in scripture.We go against denominal tradition by doing so and the same must be for giving as well.Its not enough to proof text scripture but we must view it in its entirety and in context.There is nothing wrong with teaching on OT tithing and giving and comparing it to NT giving. Do we not do similar comparisons with animal sacrifices in the OT and Christ making atonement with His death in the NT?My main issue is being taught that if I didnt give 10% I was going to hell or that I was living under the curse mentioned in Malachi 3....Ive never been wealthy and chances are I never will but I have given and God has blessed and provided.I wont list how much I have gave and the circumstances cause it aint none ya business.lol I appreciate all who have been involved in this discussion...it has been enlightening and given me much to think over.