For those who want to know...RULES at my church!

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by aquestioninggirl

What Mich said is so sad but because of the teaching I have many friends who believe the way she does or believe what they were taught when they were young and think there is no way in the world they will make it to heaven if they have to follow all of these rules so they just decided to live as bad as they want!

I don't know that I decided to live as "bad as I want", though I'm sure many here might judge it that way.

Originally Posted by Esther

Your problem Michlow is you got your eyes off of Jesus and put it on man. Man will always fail you, Jesus will not!

If you would begin again to worship Him He will heal you.

Ok, this got me a little fired up.

First off, did I ever truly have my eyes on Jesus? The real Jesus? Or did I simply always believe in a Jesus of their making?

They were the ones that told me about God. They were the ones who gave me a "bible study" in which they told me what all the Bible verses meant and why their doctrine was "truth".

From the very beginning Jesus was portrayed as a Tyrannical Fascist who demands perfection and is never satisfied. As a God who is waiting for you to make one tiny mistake so that he can cast you into hell and torture you for all eternity.

So the question remains, did I truly walk away from "truth"? Or did I simply stop accepting the lie?

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by aquestioninggirl

I been there. I had to erase everything I knew and start all over.

What those who have NOT been there fail to understand is that it is neither an easy or a fast concept, as most of the tools that you used to originally find faith have been tainted.

Spiritual authority, the church, the Bible, rules, and even Jesus himself, have all been twisted and distorted and used to manipulate and control.

People think that I have given up, what they fail to understand is that it has taken everything that I have to not chuck it all away completely. And I have actually found peace where I am. For the first time in 7 years I don't spend all my waking hours worried about all the things in my life that are going to send me to hell. Actually I don't think about hell at all.....

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by aquestioninggirl

Actually, our church was a no medicine church... but we took them and told no one. The preacher did not and one day he was walking over to church to preach and died. No one knows why he died because he had never gone to a doctor.

And he lived to be almost 90? Well, good for him. Bad for anyone who didn't last that long.

I had a pastor once who bragged that he never took aspirin and didn't even have any in his house. He'd say this from the pulpit. Meanwhile, I remembered he had been hospitalized at least a couple of times before. I asked him what he meant about the aspirin- should we in the church throw out whatever medicines we have? He just snickered in response.

I think most of these guys just posture and pose in the pulpit in some way that makes them feel proud. If you try to nail them down to most of the stuff they say they act shocked that you were even listening.

Uhm, yeah... if I had stayed home you'd be after me for that, so here I am AND I'm paying attention... Then they gripe about that. When I met some real pastors for the first time my whole life began to change. Thankfully not everyone is a dope expecting you to be just as stupid as they are.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by dizzyde

I agree with this, but sometimes, depending on your circumstance, the man is all you can see. He is blocking out Jesus. If you have never lived that, it is hard to understand.

Thank you for this.

I often use this example:

When you are born into an abusive dysfunctional family, your concept of "normal" and "healthy" behavior is skewed. When you are "born again" in an abusive "family" it is no different.

I have found in my interactions with others, is that those who had some contact with religion or God prior to the experiencing spiritual abuse find recovery a bit easier to separate the actions of one man, or one church, or one organization from that of the Lord.

Those whose only knowledge of God has come at the hands of the abusers have a lot more to overcome, for to them (and I am one), all of faith seems to be irretrievably intermeshed with the abuse.

Originally Posted by Esther

Sis. I went through a similiar situation, and when I went to another church I went only to WORSHIP Him and He did the healing.

see above.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by socaliupc

BOOMM....it is THIS type of a post that I was referring to. When someone goes through something as tragic as spiritual abuse, it is commendable that they did not leave God altogether.

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Posting like from Michlow are more the normal.

BOOMM, if it makes you feel better....

I don't feel like I have left God, it's more that I feel like I never really knew the REAL God in the first place. Simply a false construct.

Though, I suppose that I DO believe that the REAL God is nothing like the way God is taught in the UPC, which probably make you feel worse.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Michlow

Thank you for this.

I often use this example:

When you are born into an abusive dysfunctional family, your concept of "normal" and "healthy" behavior is skewed. When you are "born again" in an abusive "family" it is no different.

I have found in my interactions with others, is that those who had some contact with religion or God prior to the experiencing spiritual abuse find recovery a bit easier to separate the actions of one man, or one church, or one organization from that of the Lord.

Those whose only knowledge of God has come at the hands of the abusers have a lot more to overcome, for to them (and I am one), all of faith seems to be irretrievably intermeshed with the abuse.

see above.

Same for me. When I got saved in my teens, the church was the only thing that existed for me. As my church experience soured I began to fundamentally question my beliefs and the whole idea of religion.

With all of my doubts and the pain I was going through I hit a spiritual bottom. Investigating the claims of atheism and of other beliefs, I wasn't satisfied with much I was reading or seeing. Then the thought came to me, "With all of your doubts, what if you gave God the benefit of the doubt?" I certainly had enough doubt to spare. It was about that time that things began to turn around for me.

I'd like to think that perhaps He had given me the benefit His doubt as well.

[Trouvere]

I am so glad my relationship with Jesus has been about relationship first.
I found truth after loving the truth personified.I don't do what I do because of
anyone selling or convincing me.That wonderful presense of the Holy Ghost cemented the deal.Sometimes you have to get back to the basics and just
start from scratch.I am glad it did not involve others pushing anything on me
or trying to make me feel guilty.I just love God.I hope that some who have walked away from churches that teach the truth about salvation would find a church that does and start over.Not every church is the same.I see alot have posted the initials UPC.Sorry but if your relationship with God was based on a religous organization then you were based not on truth.Truth is what the bible teaches.Not all churches that belong to the org UPC are the same.People are not the same.Culture is not the same.Mindset is not the same.Live and learn some things.Be willing to recognize maybe its you that
had your priorities out of order.Its better to be drawn to Jesus by his spirit than be sold like you bought a used car.Relationships change over the years.
Some change for better and some for worse.If your relationship with your pastor and congregation has soured then maybe its time for a checkup with
Dr.Jesus.No one abuses us unless we allow them or we are children who are cornered.Those I feel for but for a adult who has a pair of shoes on their feet I have never known a church to practice entrapment.You just get in your car and drive.No one is making you.I refuse to hear rants and raves about those
boo whoo hooo who were so hurt by a certain kind of church and are still
so mad that they are holding such a grudge that they won't go to a church that teaches at least the truth about salvation.Come on.Jesus didn't do it to you man did.Don't hold Jesus accountable.He doesn't have to take you to heaven if you don't want to go.Be honest.Did they abuse you or did you allow them to abuse you and now you are voicing how mad you are at them when you should be kicking yourself in the pants instead? There is a difference.

[mizpeh]

Trouvere, you've written alot of what I was thinking. We are accountable for ourselves. The Bible teaches us God is love, just, righteous, longsuffering, full of compassion, .....the bottom line is God is good. If someone has skewed our view of God, it was not God nor was it God's word that did it. You want to KNOW God, study his word. It's His testimony to us of Himself.

That post makes me sick...

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by SISTER Murphy

Yes, it was 'peaceful and sweet' because there was no dissenting point of view, just like minded feelings. Set your mind at ease, dear, my husband has said that my time on this thread has come to an end, so you may now continue on your merry way without a worry of my disturbance.

Sis Murphy,

Just because you don't want to agree with what has happened to others doesn't make it not so. Your dissenting point of view is just that - it's yours. It's welcome, but it doesn't take anything away from what has been said here or the fact that these things are real.

When someone has gone through something like this to find out they aren't alone is a good thing.