Lee Stoneking Addresses UN

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

I do not interpret that any of these words exempts us from the actions that Jesus practiced on earth to serve God nor do I interpret any of these words in any way but other than salvation is closed to those who do not serve God exactly as Jesus served God.

Agreed. But Jesus said no one can come to God except by Him. That excludes any means apart from the work of the cross, and apart from Jesus, as he noted when he said without his blood and body we don't have eternal life. So, once again, do you believe what Jesus and the apostles said in the verses I quoted?

No magic formula exempts anyone from judgement according to their deeds and Jesus himself said that prostitites and tax collecters would enter Heaven before the self-righteous (something to maybe keep in mind Blume, suggestion only)

agreed. Self righteousness is not present, though, just because we say Muslims are lost. It's not a a matter of us better than you. But us accepting the need for what God said we must accept in his resurrection, which anyone of any nation on earth can accept.

[Praxeas]

Muslims deny Jesus was crucified, for their sins nor that he is the Son of God

Joh_20:31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

1Jn_5:10 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.)

1Jn_3:23 And this is his commandment: that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he commanded us.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
The Quran and Islam do not teach many ways to God.

The Quran teaches that there is One God, not shared with any other
The Quran teaches that these things are mandatory:

Verbally declare that there is One God and (for Muslims only) Mohammed is a messenger
Prayer
Fasting
Zakat (charity)

I contend that Jesus taught nothing different and I completely reject the idea that everyone between the rise of the Roman Church and Azusa street "went to hell". I also believe that based on the condition of Christianity at the time of development of the Quran and the condition of the chirch today that the church turned away from what they were supposed to do and how they were supposed to conduct themselves and God picked the most backwards and ignorant group of people possible to clarify it.
All Muslims believe in Jesus. It is not enough to believe in Jesus and there is not a magic salvation formula. Conduct and what is due God is spelled out and it is clearly stated in both books that all men will be judged not by what they believed or how they looked but by their deeds. This is contradictory to following a magic formula which magically conveys the right to judge and condemn others. It is not contradictory to every single person declared righteous by God in every single book.

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Are you trying to suggest that God turned away from the Jewish people and Christians to replace them with Mohammad and Islam?

*BUMP* for a yes or no answer.

[shazeep]

i doubt it, as this would be the equivalent of throwing the first stone, along with anyone who feels qualified to point a finger at "the lost." I read in the Qur'an that anyone who adheres to their monotheistic belief is a brother. But i have forgotten those days, when i too felt that i had no sin because i was following all the procedures described to me.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i doubt it, as this would be the equivalent of throwing the first stone, along with anyone who feels qualified to point a finger at "the lost." I read in the Qur'an that anyone who adheres to their monotheistic belief is a brother. But i have forgotten those days, when i too felt that i had no sin because i was following all the procedures described to me.

You never seemed to know the real message of the bible, nor do you now. For, if you knew, you would realize it's not our deeds but it's His work on the cross. And without His work on the cross accomplished in our lives, we are nothing and we are lost in our sins. Muslims deny the work of God that occurs through the death and resurrection. Show me one statement in Koran that says we must have the work of the cross applied to our lives for salvation.

God washes our sins, not us. We buried all hopes of making ourselves righteous when we were baptized in Jesus' name. Your presenting a view that's so twisted you cannot even see what we are saying and attribute it to the exact opposite of our point.

We are not better than anyone. It has nothing to do with one person better. It has to do with whether or not GOD did the work after we accepted what had to be done BY HIM. Islam is a works-based religion. Not grace of God at all.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Muslims deny Jesus was crucified, for their sins nor that he is the Son of God

How do you know? Because, in your discussions with them, they do not use the same words that you do, in the correct order? See that this might be so vital to you--even though God could care less, and has plainly issued the warning that many will cry "Lord, Lord"--because it defines you now, those words. The meaning behind them is lost in translation, if they are not considered with the rest of Scripture. Acts 2:38 will have you in hell, all by itself; if you make it a Law.

Would you like me to quote where Islam has been provided as a contender for Christians? Never mentions that they are condemned, btw. I would repeat that the vineyard owner had two sons, and that parable is very apt here.

But really all one need do is open their eyes, and examine the fruit. Your leaders have quoted the curse of Isaiah upon us; i would be curious how much condemnation Stoneking heaped upon them, in his visit to the UN.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Are you trying to suggest that God turned away from the Jewish people and Christians to replace them with Mohammad and Islam?

You should be reminded that though people turn away from God He does not turn away from them. I suggested nothing of the sort.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You never seemed to know the real message of the bible, nor do you now. For, if you knew, you would realize it's not our deeds but it's His work on the cross. And without His work on the cross accomplished in our lives, we are nothing and we are lost in our sins. Muslims deny the work of God that occurs through the death and resurrection. Show me one statement in Koran that says we must have the work of the cross applied to our lives for salvation.

God washes our sins, not us. We buried all hopes of making ourselves righteous when we were baptized in Jesus' name. Your presenting a view that's so twisted you cannot even see what we are saying and attribute it to the exact opposite of our point.

We are not better than anyone. It has nothing to do with one person better. It has to do with whether or not GOD did the work after we accepted what had to be done BY HIM. Islam is a works-based religion. Not grace of God at all.

Not what Jesus, or Paul, or John in Revelations said. All said deeds. Perhaps you should review.

[Walks_in_islam]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

*BUMP* for a yes or no answer.

Asked and answered. A kind reminder that you are asleep when I am awake and my household is not the household of a minister thus I have a job and have to work so kindly be patient.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

You should be reminded that though people turn away from God He does not turn away from them. I suggested nothing of the sort.

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam;

I also believe that based on the condition of Christianity at the time of development of the Quran and the condition of the chirch today that the church turned away from what they were supposed to do and how they were supposed to conduct themselves and God picked the most backwards and ignorant group of people possible to clarify it.

What ARE you saying here? Please clarify.