Trying to Rescue Another from HMH Doctrine

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

After a good night sleep, I was able to digest the many answers this morning a whole lot easier. I try to take in account everybody's pov.

Thank you lemon and accerak for putting things in a more proper perspective for me.

I apologize for calling hair and dress standards garbage, even though I still do not see the necessity of it to salvation in addition to the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I am of the opinion that Christ suffered so for our sakes that nothing we can do will ever compare to the love He has for us. His blood is sufficient for me.

And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

(II Corinthians 12:9)

I am going to personalize this just for me.


As I read more about other people's views, it has dawned upon me that many of you never knew anything outside the boundaries of your faith and standards.
Therefore, you cannot possibly understand the way other people feel about certain issues...and probably never will. Many of you will never understand the difficulties one faces when rejecting what they have been taught all their life and entering into a new life, relearning what should have been taught all the years growing up. For some it is easy to walk away, for others not so easy. You will never know the inner struggles to reapply doctrine and reinterpret doctrine in your mind and heart. The RCC interprets much of the Bible passages with different explanations than the Apostolic movement.

Let me say right now that many of you here DO know what it feels like and I know your inner feelings and struggles you convey by your posts. Many of those posts are well thought out.

Just consider the turmoil some of you would go through if you ever felt God leading you out of what you have been taught about standards and feel the rejection of your family and friends.

I should be content to let you all who believe that church standards must be followed to be able to stand before the throne of Christ. It is, by all means what you feel you must do for your salvation.

Growing up RCC, in poverty and being disapproved of by both the RCC and the UPC, I have a completely different perspective of God because He has revealed to me who He is, not from any church doctrine or position, but from His Word itself.

You see, I have a sister who rejects me because I do not revere "Mother Mary" in the same fashion as she does. Then those who believe that standards are a part of the path to seeing Jesus also reject my pov because I do not revere standards as necessary. I believe in modesty. Some of my outerwear is quite more modest than some dresses females come to church in. I've seen everything from party dresses to short, tight leather skirts and I would wonder to myself how this is more acceptable than slacks. But that is neither here nor there for me anymore.

While it may seem trivial to all the people around me, my passion to just want to believe God without any church denominational influence, to me my struggles to stay in my belief of Christ and what He has done for me through His shed blood will take precedence over anybody else's belief. If I am not considered to be a sister in the Lord ...worthy of love by others because I do not share the same belief point by point...I will just learn to live with that.

However, I am quite adaptive to rejection by people because of personal beliefs. Occasionally, I find myself embroiled into arguments over something I do not consider to be of great issue overall.

Galatians 5:18-26
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.


I realized this morning that if anything, the above emboldened will keep me from seeing Jesus more so than the hair issue or other doctrines that some believe and I do not share with them. Their not loving me is not as big an issue for me as it is if I do not love them.

I will not change other people's pov with any dissension because it only serves to strengthen their resolve to keep their pov.

What good is changing somebody's pov if it comes through dissension?
Therefore, I will do my best to ask the Lord to: Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips.
(Psalms 141:3)
when referring to Apostolic standards. That is not saying I will never talk about the standard issue, but that I will try to be more respectful in my discussion when I do have conversation and not as blunt has I have been in the past.

[bbyrd009]

Amen. I have a completely different perspective of God, too,
and it sounds just like that.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by Sarah

Sam, that may be true for the midwest where you are from, but here in the south, in the late fifties, preaching uncut hair on women was very much the norm. At least it was in my area....

Our area too! All Apostolic ladies that I knew of, had no problem with wearing their long hair...uncut! That just seemed to happen when people received the Acts 2 plan
of salvation. After I received the Holy Ghost in 1958, the desires I was beginning to have, left, and never did I desire to do them again. The UPC, etc., didn't take my desire for those things away, the Spirit I received did! This is MY story, this is MY song.

A soul was born, the angels were singing,
And all of heaven, shined down on me.
Rejoice, Rejoice, my heart kept singing.
A soul was born and now I'm free.

I can't explain, I can only say,
All heaven came down, as I knelt to pray.
Sweet Peace came flowing, like a mighty sea,
A soul was born, and now I'm free!

My life has changed, all things are different
My searching heart had found Release.
The things I hated are now the things that thrill me.
My searching soul has found Sweet Peace!

I can't explain, I can only say,
All heaven came down, as I knelt to pray.
Sweet Peace came flowing, like a mighty sea,
A soul was born, and now I'm free!

Falla39

[OnTheFritz]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Our area too! All Apostolic ladies that I knew of, had no problem with wearing their long hair...uncut! That just seemed to happen when people received the Acts 2 plan
of salvation.
Falla39

I understand that women did not question it or put up a fuss about it, but are you staying that was because they were suddenly "led in the spirit" not to cut their hair and that it would have happened in a vacuum without the influence of the pastor or other ladies in the church?

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by OnTheFritz

I understand that women did not question it or put up a fuss about it, but are you staying that was because they were suddenly "led in the spirit" not to cut their hair and that it would have happened in a vacuum without the influence of the pastor or other ladies in the church?

OnTheFritz, My late paternal grandmother, after being raised from her deathbed (typhoid fever,1926), heard the Apostolic New Covenant plan of salvation, she obeyed it.She had been a devout Bible reading, praying Methodist for 21 yrs. Her mother was a 48 yr charter member. After hearing this new message, Grandma followed on to know the Lord and received the Holy Ghost, speaking with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance. Jesus said that when the Comforter came, HE would LEAD and GUIDE into ALL Truth. Grandma was very serious about her relationship with GOD. She didn't have any generations before her to follow as our family does today. Her own mother and family thought she had lost her mind. Later they followed her in obeying the Acts 2 Apostolic message of salvation. Grandma and her son, my late father, wore out several Bibles, studying daily the Word!

Can't expect you men to fully understand the things that pertain to women. You men need to concentrate on doing what the Word tells you to do. "I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting". 1Tim:2:8. You men need to keep that hair short!

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN HMH as described by those who have tried to make light, or a joke out of those ladies who wear or have worn their hair "uncut"! A woman can wear her hair uncut yet not be right with God. She can wear a dress to her chin or down to her ankles and still have a heart that is not right with God. Our hearts (MEN and WOMEN), MUST be RIGHT WITH GOD FIRST and FOREMOST!
Men (mankind) only see the outward, but GOD SEES INSIDE. HE searches the HEART (mind), etc. HE knows!! IF HE IS INSIDE, HE will LEAD and GUIDE to those things pertaining to the OUTSIDE, IF we seek HIM with our whole heart. If we have a teachable spirit and desire to know what pleases HIM, HE WILL lead and guide us! HE will use vessels HE has prepared to teach those who are hungering and thirsting for righteousness. They SHALL BE FILLED! GOD poured out of HIS SPIRIT into empty, prepared vessels on the Day of Pentecost. Today those FILLED will overflow into other vessels who have cleansed their vessels to be FILLED!
Not trying at all to be offensive, judgemental, or otherwise.

Falla39

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Falla39

OnTheFritz, My late paternal grandmother, after being raised from her deathbed (typhoid fever,1926), heard the Apostolic New Covenant plan of salvation, she obeyed it.She had been a devout Bible reading, praying Methodist for 21 yrs. Her mother was a 48 yr charter member. After hearing this new message, Grandma followed on to know the Lord and received the Holy Ghost, speaking with tongues as the Spirit gave the utterance. Jesus said that when the Comforter came, HE would LEAD and GUIDE into ALL Truth. Grandma was very serious about her relationship with GOD. She didn't have any generations before her to follow as our family does today. Her own mother and family thought she had lost her mind. Later they followed her in obeying the Acts 2 Apostolic message of salvation. Grandma and her son, my late father, wore out several Bibles, studying daily the Word!

Can't expect you men to fully understand the things that pertain to women. You men need to concentrate on doing what the Word tells you to do. "I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting". 1Tim:2:8. You men don't need long hair.

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN HMH as described by those who have tried to make light, or a joke out of those ladies who wear or have worn their hair "uncut"! A woman can wear her hair uncut yet not be right with God. She can wear a dress to her chin or down to her ankles and still have a heart that is not right with God. Our hearts (MEN and WOMEN), MUST be RIGHT WITH GOD FIRST and FOREMOST!
Men (mankind) only see the outward, but GOD SEES INSIDE. HE searches the HEART (mind), etc. HE knows!! IF HE IS INSIDE, HE will LEAD and GUIDE to those things pertaining to the OUTSIDE, IF we seek HIM with our whole heart. If we have a teachable spirit and desire to know what pleases HIM, HE WILL lead and guide us! HE will use vessels HE has prepared to teach those who are hungering and thirsting for righteousness. They SHALL BE FILLED! GOD poured out of HIS SPIRIT into empty, prepared vessels on the Day of Pentecost. Today those FILLED will overflow into other vessels who have cleansed their vessels to be FILLED!
Not trying at all to be offensive, judgemental, or otherwise.

Falla39

My mother is a tongue talker. she doesnt have a issue with cutting her hair,

I have seen alot of short hair tounge talking women who have prophesied and interpreted the tongues. shows that the hair really isnt a issue.

[TGBTG]

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

So for the "hair as a covering" advocates, what is the purpose of the emboldened statement in the whole discourse if the covering is a natural covering?

In other words, why is Paul appealing to nature to support his point if what he's talking about is already from nature? where does this statement fit into your theology?

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by acerrak

My mother is a tongue talker. she doesnt have a issue with cutting her hair,

I have seen alot of short hair tounge talking women who have prophesied and interpreted the tongues. shows that the hair really isnt a issue.

If hair isn't an issue, time will tell!
On the other hand, if it is, time will tell that too!
Wait until your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren come along. When the fruit of what we believed and obeyed comes to fruition! Yes, there is NATURAL fruit first, and then that is SPIRITUAL!!
We must all seek out our own salvation WITH (Godly) FEAR and Trembling!

Falla39

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by Falla39

If hair isn't an issue, time will tell!
On the other hand, if it is, time will tell that too!
Wait until your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren come along. When the fruit of what we believed and obeyed comes to fruition! Yes, there is NATURAL fruit first, and then that is SPIRITUAL!!
We must all seek out our own salvation WITH (Godly) FEAR and Trembling!

Falla39

im not knocking your traqdition sister, you teach it to your kids grand kids great grand kids etc. just dont teach them its a heaven or hell issue.

the bible doesnt say cut hair is a sin, and it should never be preached as one. that is all i am saying.

My wife has long hair, she got a hair cut a few weeks ago, she had the dead ends trimmed off. I like her long hair, though she is wanting to get it cut shoulder length.

I dont like women with hair cuts like men. we will agree with that. But im not gonna cast a judgment on them and say it is a sin.. My personal preference is long hair, not uncut long hair.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by acerrak

im not knocking your traqdition sister, you teach it to your kids grand kids great grand kids etc. just dont teach them its a heaven or hell issue.

the bible doesnt say cut hair is a sin, and it should never be preached as one. that is all i am saying.

My wife has long hair, she got a hair cut a few weeks ago, she had the dead ends trimmed off. I like her long hair, though she is wanting to get it cut shoulder length.

I dont like women with hair cuts like men. we will agree with that. But im not gonna cast a judgment on them and say it is a sin.. My personal preference is long hair, not uncut long hair.

I like long(er) hair on a woman as well. My wife actually likes it shorter -about shoulder length, since she doesn't have 30-60 minutes a day to "mess" with it. I'm not going to tell her how to wear it since she is the one who has to deal with it. ...........And no one has yet to mistake her for a man! LOL